Non-sketchy alternative to Hospira bac water (in glass vials)?
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Given the money we spend on research peptides for our rats, I don’t think $15 for back water is what’s gonna break the bank. Yes, hoarding it is silly for many reasons, mainly because people dry up supply which drives the price up. And they will end up using expired Hospira at some point. That said I would trust expired Hospira over fresh untested off brand, but that’s just me. They’ve been making injections supplies way before peptides became popular .
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I know Hospira is considered the gold standard for bacteriostatic water, but I'm not a fan of their plastic vials, and in light of all the recent faux-scarcity and price-gouging by Hospira resellers, I felt now might be a good time to compare other options. My goal was to find a brand that 1. packages their reconstitution solution in borosilicate glass instead of plastic, 2. has published testing results available, showing consistently high quality and purity, and 3. manufactures their products in Europe or the USA, rather than in China. Bonus points if they have a seemingly-good reputation online, and lots of positive reviews from fellow researchers, although obviously the latter can be faked or manipulated. The water I eventually selected is made by Parrox, and runs about $5.25 a vial when purchased in quantity with a discount code and free shipping. If you're in Chicago and would like to go in with me on a large-ish order, let me know! If you're not in Chicago, but have been on a similar hunt for Hospira alternatives, maybe check them out for yourself. Shelf life on the vials appears to be 3 years from date of manufacture.
Pfizer uses a custom Olefin vial that, unlike other polymers (or borosilicate glass) doesn't leach chemicals or change the PH of the water over time. PH is the most important factor for keeping reconstituted peptides stable.
COP=Olefin Polymer
"The semi-rigid vial is fabricated from a specially formulated polyolefin. It is a copolymer of ethylene and propylene. The safety of the plastic has been confirmed by tests in animals according to USP biological standards for plastic containers. The container requires no vapor barrier to maintain the proper labeled volume."
*copy and pasted from another forum
not sure how to attach photos on mobile but was reading this with a chart attached showing pH rising w glass on a 6month timeline while the COP maintained its pH -
@STATIEEIGHT I dont like how far apart the tests are from eachother. But if its working for you thats great!
Randy
Yeh - let’s just say this company is not on the same level as a Pfizor - they might only do 1X batch a year? - I really don’t know (they are over 1000K’s from me in another state and I just get shit delivered.
The fact that anyone down here did any sort of testing (especially endotoxins) on BAC water at all surprised me to tell the truth
.Most of the rest of the shit I see here is fake hospira off Amazon or rebranded Chinese stuff with a sticker on it.
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@Stevepep it comes down to risk tolerance. Hospira wont give you issues. Other off brand water might. Its unregulated. A lot of times PH is off, benzyl alcohol content is off, something is living in it or there's high endo numbers. Half the time someone has issues with foggy or clumpy peptides its the water.
I have lost count of the times someone's rat has had a reaction to something and I say "just do 10iu of the water and see what happens" and they get the same reaction.
"but my friend jerry uses uncle wangs toilet water with no problem! Hospira is a scam!" That's great. I'm glad it works for them. If you go outside of Hospira you need to get it tested. If you don't your risk tolerance is different than mine.
I am friendly with a few of the owners of the companies you buy from and they sell water... Every single one still gets Hospira for themselves.
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Based on the number of threads recently, I am starting to think this forum has developed a mild case of Hospira Derangement Syndrome.
Stay safe, research responsibly, share good information, and let people make their own decisions.
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There was also the test on expired Hospira, I think they even had a ten year old (unopened) bottle that was still good. So I would take 3 year expired Hospjra over untested other BAC water. If there is a vendor that had COAs up that were under 6 months old - and I couldn’t get Hospjra - I would buy a few cases of it and send out a bottle from each to be tested…
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There was also the test on expired Hospira, I think they even had a ten year old (unopened) bottle that was still good. So I would take 3 year expired Hospjra over untested other BAC water. If there is a vendor that had COAs up that were under 6 months old - and I couldn’t get Hospjra - I would buy a few cases of it and send out a bottle from each to be tested…
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I work with a form of benzyl alcohol in my industry and its shelf life is less than 18 months before it starts to lose potency and it loses its ability to combat bacteria after 24 months. Unopened. Like I say we are all consenting adults it’s a matter of risk. If people want to buy 3 years worth and have convinced themselves it’s good for 3 years then that’s their choice.
In terms of a 6 month old COA maybe the run a large production run every 6 months who knows
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Someone tested 10 year old Hospira BAC water? Please post that link. The question is why use it passed its expiration date when you can order what you need and then just reorder more
@Stevepep
I am pretty sure it was Jeff (Randy) on here that posted the results. I think I asked about doing a test and he said it was already done and posted it…
If not it was on Peppy’s, but I don’t go on there anymore…
But I do remember reading the posting where they were asking for anyone that had old unopened bottles if they would donate them, and people did. One was 10 years old. But if you search the forums you will find it -
@Stevepep
I am pretty sure it was Jeff (Randy) on here that posted the results. I think I asked about doing a test and he said it was already done and posted it…
If not it was on Peppy’s, but I don’t go on there anymore…
But I do remember reading the posting where they were asking for anyone that had old unopened bottles if they would donate them, and people did. One was 10 years old. But if you search the forums you will find it@Commander I hate to tell you, but there is no way benzyl alcohol won't degrade over 10 years. It's just not possible its not that stable. In my business, we use a ton of a similar sterile alcohol, and it loses its ability to kill bacteria in less than two years unopened. They have an expiration date for a reason.
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@Commander I hate to tell you, but there is no way benzyl alcohol won't degrade over 10 years. It's just not possible its not that stable. In my business, we use a ton of a similar sterile alcohol, and it loses its ability to kill bacteria in less than two years unopened. They have an expiration date for a reason.
@Stevepep
You aren’t really telling me anything, I wasn’t the one that did the test. I did organize it, I didn’t participate in it. I only suggested that Peptide Critic do the test, than I was informed it had already been done. You should be telling the lab who did the test…
If you search you will find it, it was kind of a big deal on the boards for a while. -
@Stevepep
You aren’t really telling me anything, I wasn’t the one that did the test. I did organize it, I didn’t participate in it. I only suggested that Peptide Critic do the test, than I was informed it had already been done. You should be telling the lab who did the test…
If you search you will find it, it was kind of a big deal on the boards for a while.@Commander point being you are the test guy, be safe guy, the guy who tells everyone to test everything, take no risks. let’s not suggest people use years old BAC water that is simply not safe. There is no reason for it. It’s available and never had been unavailable. No reason to go well behind the companies own expiration date. It’s not some made up thing. It’s because it degrades and creates microplastics which in an injectable is a no, no.
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@Commander point being you are the test guy, be safe guy, the guy who tells everyone to test everything, take no risks. let’s not suggest people use years old BAC water that is simply not safe. There is no reason for it. It’s available and never had been unavailable. No reason to go well behind the companies own expiration date. It’s not some made up thing. It’s because it degrades and creates microplastics which in an injectable is a no, no.
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@Stevepep
You say it degrades. But why would we take your word for it over an actually laboratory testing that was done? Yes I am a test guy.. I am referring to an actual test that was done. You are saying “trust me I am in the business”… -
@Stevepep
You say it degrades. But why would we take your word for it over an actually laboratory testing that was done? Yes I am a test guy.. I am referring to an actual test that was done. You are saying “trust me I am in the business”…@Commander Believe what you want we are all making choices. I believe they put an expiration date on the bottle for a reason. I have no reason to use it after that date so I don’t. Did they test for microplastics that’s what happens when the alcohol degrades in plastic. It’s no go for me. You do whatever suites you but no reason to get on everyone on here about testing when you spit in the face of an expiration date on something you are injecting. Seems a little illogical but that’s just me. I find it funny you trust this so called test but no other test other than the ones you conduct yourself in this instance though it works. Group tests are ok now?
For the record I am not in business of Benzyl alcohol we use it to sanitize medical equipment and understand it’s storage limitations in that regard.
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Here you go.. read it for yourself
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So 1 year expired Hospira was with 1.7% of label claim of BA… so I guess on the very day if the expiration date, the BAC water goes from being fine to unusable…
That must be what they mean by 1 year expired Hospira was within 1.7% of label claim… (even though that is still within acceptable limits)
BAC water is not cinderella, it does not suddenly go bad when the clock strikes 12 on the expiration date.
But if you have any unopened BAC water that is within a year or two of expiration date, You can send it to me, I will gladly use it. -
Go towards the bottom, they test a few of them… but I guess we test stuff and then say, I don’t believe the tests… probably don’t need to test then, ya that sounds right.
@Commander you say you don’t believe the tests that third parties do not me. I asked you answered no test for microplastics which I tried to explain to you is the issue when benzyl alcohol degrades in the plastic vial. Like I said it’s risk management for me I am not going to use an expired product years or even months after it expires and inject it into my body. It’s insane that I am even having a discussion on this issue.
Like I said Anyone is free to do what they deem a risk worth taking. Just like those who aren’t going to test every Nexaph product they receive that had been tested by Nexaph and third parties both of which you said you don’t trust other than when it comes to Hospira that is
The real question is why? You can just order what you need, use it and order more there is absolutely no need to add any risk. I don’t see it as saving money at best that deal saved you .40 yo .50 cents a reconstituted vial. It makes zero sense to me but if it makes sense to you that go for it I am not willing to take a completely unnecessary risk over 50 cents
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