CRUSH SS31 gelled - endotoxins?
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Try adding a little more bac. When I had issues with 10mg ARA gelling with 1ml bac, per Randy’s advice, the solution was to use 1.5ml BW. I now dilute with 2ml to keep math simple and no longer have gel issues.
@MyB It is a 10mg vial reconstituted with 2mL Lambda Water on the11th of Aug and kept in a zippered black peptide case, and place in a large ziploc bag and stored in the fridge. It is still clear (not cloudy) and runs, but not as fluid as water, and I am not able to draw it.
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Here are the pictures. It looks completely clear (not cloudy). It is just thick.
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Audrey from CRUSH just got back to me and said they will send me a new vial. Very nice that they made it right.
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@Stevepep I was wondering if gelling meant that it had endotoxins - it was a question. I was trying to figure out if it was safe to inject, but everything I've come across says "No, do not inject".
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UPDATE: I emailed CRUSH and I'm very pleased to say that Audrey from Crush said that she sent me a replacement vial. She said "MTS-31 is known for being susceptible to this issue". I will post a review soon.
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UPDATE: I emailed CRUSH and I'm very pleased to say that Audrey from Crush said that she sent me a replacement vial. She said "MTS-31 is known for being susceptible to this issue". I will post a review soon.
@ed1 said:
MTS-31 is known for being susceptible to this issue
Ummm No.
Yours truly's rat ran a full 10 week protocol with 4mg / ml concentration. No gelling whatsoever. What was the vial size in mg and how many ml BAC was used?
Too concentrated peps tend to aggregate and cause gelling.
Whenever people pin it on vendor vial quality, only a handful of vendors are finishing their own vials stateside. All others are getting finished vials from a handful overseas manufacturers. So if SS-31 is supposed to gel, it will gel across different vendors.
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Try adding a little more bac. When I had issues with 10mg ARA gelling with 1ml bac, per Randy’s advice, the solution was to use 1.5ml BW. I now dilute with 2ml to keep math simple and no longer have gel issues.
Try adding a little more bac. When I had issues with 10mg ARA gelling with 1ml bac, per Randy’s advice, the solution was to use 1.5ml BW. I now dilute with 2ml to keep math simple and no longer have gel issues.
THIS! I didn't read it before and repeated the same thing.
Gelling is less likely pep or vendor issue than BAC quality, concentration of solution, and handling technique issue.
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@MyB It is a 10mg vial reconstituted with 2mL Lambda Water on the11th of Aug and kept in a zippered black peptide case, and place in a large ziploc bag and stored in the fridge. It is still clear (not cloudy) and runs, but not as fluid as water, and I am not able to draw it.
@ed1 said:
@MyB It is a 10mg vial reconstituted with 2mL Lambda Water on the11th of Aug and kept in a zippered black peptide case, and place in a large ziploc bag and stored in the fridge. It is still clear (not cloudy) and runs, but not as fluid as water, and I am not able to draw it.
That's 5mg/ml, which comes close to gelling boundary. Recommended to keep 4mg/ml or lower concentration.
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@ed1 said:
@MyB It is a 10mg vial reconstituted with 2mL Lambda Water on the11th of Aug and kept in a zippered black peptide case, and place in a large ziploc bag and stored in the fridge. It is still clear (not cloudy) and runs, but not as fluid as water, and I am not able to draw it.
That's 5mg/ml, which comes close to gelling boundary. Recommended to keep 4mg/ml or lower concentration.
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@ed1 said:
MTS-31 is known for being susceptible to this issue
Ummm No.
Yours truly's rat ran a full 10 week protocol with 4mg / ml concentration. No gelling whatsoever. What was the vial size in mg and how many ml BAC was used?
Too concentrated peps tend to aggregate and cause gelling.
Whenever people pin it on vendor vial quality, only a handful of vendors are finishing their own vials stateside. All others are getting finished vials from a handful overseas manufacturers. So if SS-31 is supposed to gel, it will gel across different vendors.
@pep_researcher The vial is 10mg, recontituted with 2mL of Lambda Water. It did not gel immediately, but after 10 days.
All of my reconstituted peptides are kept in a black foam zippered case, placed inside a large ziploc bag, inside the back of the fridge.
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@ed1 said:
@MyB It is a 10mg vial reconstituted with 2mL Lambda Water on the11th of Aug and kept in a zippered black peptide case, and place in a large ziploc bag and stored in the fridge. It is still clear (not cloudy) and runs, but not as fluid as water, and I am not able to draw it.
That's 5mg/ml, which comes close to gelling boundary. Recommended to keep 4mg/ml or lower concentration.
@pep_researcher ok, thanks. I will reconstitue the new vial with 4mL of BAC.
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@pep_researcher The vial is 10mg, recontituted with 2mL of Lambda Water. It did not gel immediately, but after 10 days.
All of my reconstituted peptides are kept in a black foam zippered case, placed inside a large ziploc bag, inside the back of the fridge.
@ed1 said:
Lambda Water
This could very well be the culprit, more than the concentration or along with the higher concentration. Try using pH strips to check the pH. If pH is higher than 5.5, it can mess SS-31 or others who can't tolerate more basic pH.
The other thing that doesn't get discussed enough is — handling techniques.
Some researchers follow this strict rule — once a noodle is out of the BAC bottle, no repoking again. Fresh noodle for every fresh poke.
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@pep_researcher I was unaware. Is 4mg/ml a good rule of thumb for all peptides or just SS-31? I just reconstituted a vial of SS-31 yesterday with Hospira sodium chloride at 10mg/ml. Would the gelling happen over time or would I know right away?
Is 4mg/ml a good rule of thumb for all peptides or just SS-31?
No such rule. It really depends on peptide chemistry and also dosing size.
Some researchers use more BAC when dose is smaller than 1mg to reduce margin of error in drawing each dose. If the solution is too concentrated, each unit here and there can sway the dose largely.
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Is 4mg/ml a good rule of thumb for all peptides or just SS-31?
No such rule. It really depends on peptide chemistry and also dosing size.
Some researchers use more BAC when dose is smaller than 1mg to reduce margin of error in drawing each dose. If the solution is too concentrated, each unit here and there can sway the dose largely.
@pep_researcher
Ah, so the recommended concentration is more of a suggestion from your experience with SS-31?I was trying to get my injections around 30 units which is why I did 10mg/ml (3mg dose). Would you still recommend adding more bac sodium chloride to my SS-31 to reduce the concentration to prevent possible geling? Or is there no guarantee that it won't gel with either concentration?
Also, for my education, is the geling caused by a chemical reaction or is it simply too much mass for the amount of solution?
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I’ve done 8 weeks of SS-31 using 50mg vials and using only 3ml of Hospira Bac water so a concentration of 16.67mg/ml and never had a single time it gelled on me. I started off at 5mg shots per day and so each vial would last 10 days and it was still fine on the 10th day. Then I moved up to 10mg shots for the final 2 weeks so each vial only lasted 5 days. But I went through many vials and again never had a single issue with only using 3ml Hospira Bac Water. So not sure about this 4mg/ml stated above. My experience using a much higher concentration tells a different story.
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I'm at the end of my 3rd vial(40mg) using 4mg per day and no issues. I just recon with Hospira BAC.
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I’ve done 8 weeks of SS-31 using 50mg vials and using only 3ml of Hospira Bac water so a concentration of 16.67mg/ml and never had a single time it gelled on me. I started off at 5mg shots per day and so each vial would last 10 days and it was still fine on the 10th day. Then I moved up to 10mg shots for the final 2 weeks so each vial only lasted 5 days. But I went through many vials and again never had a single issue with only using 3ml Hospira Bac Water. So not sure about this 4mg/ml stated above. My experience using a much higher concentration tells a different story.
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@pep_researcher The vial is 10mg, recontituted with 2mL of Lambda Water. It did not gel immediately, but after 10 days.
All of my reconstituted peptides are kept in a black foam zippered case, placed inside a large ziploc bag, inside the back of the fridge.
@ed1
Maybe put a thermometer inside the case and spot check it when the frig has been unopened for a long time vs when it is opened frequently.
I lost three loaded cartridges and a frozen bac bottle one time when the fridge randomly froze at the back. I have to adjust the temp on my peptide fridge at least twice per week because it is just not stable, and now I always keep them near the front.
Not saying that is your gelling problem, but you want to be sure your temps are staying in range. -
@ed1 said:
Lambda Water
This could very well be the culprit, more than the concentration or along with the higher concentration. Try using pH strips to check the pH. If pH is higher than 5.5, it can mess SS-31 or others who can't tolerate more basic pH.
The other thing that doesn't get discussed enough is — handling techniques.
Some researchers follow this strict rule — once a noodle is out of the BAC bottle, no repoking again. Fresh noodle for every fresh poke.
@pep_researcher i’ve used, very recently, lambda to recon two different peps. I’ve not had issues with either of them at this point. PH looks pretty close to Hospira.
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