Freedom Again
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@ogsteve endos may come along for the ride with non-sterility unfortunately. Think levels likely depend upon how much growth there's been in the vial and the resulting garbage generated. Another reason to keep things chilled and dry if possible; cooling and dehydration slow growth.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/endotoxin
"Endotoxin is defined as a toxic substance released from the outer membrane of certain bacteria, such as E. coli, primarily consisting of lipopolysaccharide (LPS), which includes lipid A. It is responsible for various diseases in humans and is a significant contaminant in the pharmaceutical and food industries."@senex_mus I agree with this. My point was that, even if it has bacteria in the vile that caused the endotoxins, the bacteria is not producing any more endotoxins while it’s in the vile. Only once it’s reconstitute, it is capable of producing more endotoxins at which point we just filter the bacteria out and move on with life.
Does that make sense. Am I missing something?
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I run Blackline Scientific, and Freedom tests every batch we sell, so I read this thread closely. If a report is wrong, post the full report and the batch it belongs to so it can be checked line by line. That is fair game and it should be. What I can say from our side is that every certificate for our products is published on the product page for anyone to read before ordering, and when a question comes up we answer it in the open. Testing only means something when the reports stay public and anyone can question them.
I run Blackline Scientific, and Freedom tests every batch we sell, so I read this thread closely. If a report is wrong, post the full report and the batch it belongs to so it can be checked line by line. That is fair game and it should be. What I can say from our side is that every certificate for our products is published on the product page for anyone to read before ordering, and when a question comes up we answer it in the open. Testing only means something when the reports stay public and anyone can question them.
Clearly you haven't been paying attention and just here to spam your site. Go spend some time on here and read why we DO NOT respect Freedom Lab which you are using. Has nothing to do with just publishing COA's. That's an obvious that every vendor should be doing at the very least.
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@senex_mus I agree with this. My point was that, even if it has bacteria in the vile that caused the endotoxins, the bacteria is not producing any more endotoxins while it’s in the vile. Only once it’s reconstitute, it is capable of producing more endotoxins at which point we just filter the bacteria out and move on with life.
Does that make sense. Am I missing something?
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@senex_mus I agree with this. My point was that, even if it has bacteria in the vile that caused the endotoxins, the bacteria is not producing any more endotoxins while it’s in the vile. Only once it’s reconstitute, it is capable of producing more endotoxins at which point we just filter the bacteria out and move on with life.
Does that make sense. Am I missing something?
@ogsteve This is not right. Endotoxins residues even without active bacteria can cause serious adverse research outcomes and they don't get filtered out using regular pep filters.
Recall that JEEP Tirz batches with horrendous endotoxins levels had passed sterility tests. You can find COAs on this forum.
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I run Blackline Scientific, and Freedom tests every batch we sell, so I read this thread closely. If a report is wrong, post the full report and the batch it belongs to so it can be checked line by line. That is fair game and it should be. What I can say from our side is that every certificate for our products is published on the product page for anyone to read before ordering, and when a question comes up we answer it in the open. Testing only means something when the reports stay public and anyone can question them.
Clearly you haven't been paying attention and just here to spam your site. Go spend some time on here and read why we DO NOT respect Freedom Lab which you are using. Has nothing to do with just publishing COA's. That's an obvious that every vendor should be doing at the very least.
@denti Yup, amusing how vendors feel offended when they see critical content on the labs they are using.
Instead of bringing their receipts to prove their testing, say COAs from another lab that the forum vets, they get in the mud to defend their lab. Vendor and lab romance is a huge red flag.
I think Randy needs to create a separate directory — vendors with subpar labs yet hostile attitude.
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@randy I think you have another red banner to add for Blackline-Scientific above. LOL they don't even have COA's posted for a lot of their items they sell. Instead they have a pdf of "Safety Data Sheet" for some of their items. Some of these vendors really are the dumbest people out there. Come on this site, which has a load of informed members, and try to spam your site while you own yourself. Amazing.
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https://community.peptidecritic.com/topic/3540/discussion-blackline-scientific
https://peptidecritic.com/vendor/blackline-scientific
They list "the collective" on "their tests" when they are available. Its so lazy I cant even.
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https://community.peptidecritic.com/topic/3540/discussion-blackline-scientific
https://peptidecritic.com/vendor/blackline-scientific
They list "the collective" on "their tests" when they are available. Its so lazy I cant even.
https://community.peptidecritic.com/topic/3540/discussion-blackline-scientific
https://peptidecritic.com/vendor/blackline-scientific
They list "the collective" on "their tests" when they are available. Its so lazy I cant even.
Everyone should check out Randy's links for Blackline Scientific. You will certainly enjoy the comedy on how dumb this vendor is and how easily they got caught.
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@ogsteve This is not right. Endotoxins residues even without active bacteria can cause serious adverse research outcomes and they don't get filtered out using regular pep filters.
Recall that JEEP Tirz batches with horrendous endotoxins levels had passed sterility tests. You can find COAs on this forum.
@pep_researcher that's not what I read or agreed to.
Essentially, filtering will remove bacteria and no more endotoxins will be introduced.
No way to get rid of the current endotoxin load, just limit or stop more being introduced, and of course, injecting your test subject with bacteria.
Endotoxins can be introduced anywhere in the manufacturing process. No bacteria required even. There is no way to get rid of them w/o destroying the product unfortunately. GMP is the product being filtered as it's being pumped into the fill room for lophilization. Any slight contamination problem in the fill, and the product is non-sterile. Sterility in the fill that I worked in was much, much more rigorous that any hospital operating room that I've seen.
Filter sterilization will at least remove bacteria and limit further endotoxin production. Best you can do since there is no iron clad guarantee of sterility.
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@ogsteve This is not right. Endotoxins residues even without active bacteria can cause serious adverse research outcomes and they don't get filtered out using regular pep filters.
Recall that JEEP Tirz batches with horrendous endotoxins levels had passed sterility tests. You can find COAs on this forum.
@pep_researcher maybe re-read my comment. I never said anything about filtering endotoxins.
Endo bad…
Sterilty… dont care. Just filter.The Endo that’s in the vial doesn’t get any worse while it’s in the vial.
The bacteria that cause the endo get filtered at recon.
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@pep_researcher maybe re-read my comment. I never said anything about filtering endotoxins.
Endo bad…
Sterilty… dont care. Just filter.The Endo that’s in the vial doesn’t get any worse while it’s in the vial.
The bacteria that cause the endo get filtered at recon.
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@ogsteve the basic fact you are missing is if there is a sterility issue there are endotoxins they go hand and hand and most labs suck at testing for them where sterility is fairly easy to test for.
@Stevepep i didnt miss that. Im just able to address them separately and still succeed.
One needs $150 testing to find in one vial out of a batch
One needs $0.65 to SOLVE every single vial.
If endo is over spec its garbage. If its not sterile but under endo then filter solves the remaining issue.
This is what i mean when i say i dont care much if they test for sterilty. Its a “nice to have”.
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@Stevepep i didnt miss that. Im just able to address them separately and still succeed.
One needs $150 testing to find in one vial out of a batch
One needs $0.65 to SOLVE every single vial.
If endo is over spec its garbage. If its not sterile but under endo then filter solves the remaining issue.
This is what i mean when i say i dont care much if they test for sterilty. Its a “nice to have”.
@ogsteve which filters do you use? 0.22 or 0.10? Thanks.
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@ogsteve which filters do you use? 0.22 or 0.10? Thanks.
@mikebricker Yes. (Thanks to your guidance i might add)
Depends on the pep and how sketchy it is.
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@mikebricker Yes. (Thanks to your guidance i might add)
Depends on the pep and how sketchy it is.
@ogsteve how do you determine sketchiness?
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@ogsteve how do you determine sketchiness?
@mikebricker Better question why would you take a sketchy peptide? This crap catches up to you and when it does people change their opinions pretty quick. Not talking about you. You aren't solving everything with a filter, most bacteria is large enough but there are smaller pathogens than can get you. Its just an extra safety measure that one should absolutely use IMO
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@ogsteve how do you determine sketchiness?
@mikebricker well if its from china directly and has
Minimal Testing then it gets the .10. If its from mile
High maybe the .22. Most commercial products like glutathione or cerebrolysin or cortexin fall into this category.Alternatively something like ara-290 that wants sterile water or pbs recon its definitely super sterile procedures with masks and 0.10 and temp controlled storage, expirations etc.
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@Stevepep i didnt miss that. Im just able to address them separately and still succeed.
One needs $150 testing to find in one vial out of a batch
One needs $0.65 to SOLVE every single vial.
If endo is over spec its garbage. If its not sterile but under endo then filter solves the remaining issue.
This is what i mean when i say i dont care much if they test for sterilty. Its a “nice to have”.
@Stevepep i didnt miss that. Im just able to address them separately and still succeed.
One needs $150 testing to find in one vial out of a batch
One needs $0.65 to SOLVE every single vial.
If endo is over spec it’s garbage. If itnot sterile but inder endo then filter solves the remaining issue.
Generally speaking I agree. The issue is many labs have been proven to be extremely inaccurate on endotoxins because it requires expensive equipment , a clean room trained technicians etc etc. that’s why many don’t report a value and just say pass/fail because they filter out a set amount knowing the environment isn’t clean enough to accurately test. Others report a value with a filtered number built in. Sterility you can generally rely on. It’s an easy test. If it fails sterility it has endotoxins maybe not at a toxic level per se but you should stay away from a product that fails filter or not. If the environment was that unclean there also could be other contaminants like viruses that a filter will not filter out.
I just hope nobody is seeing these posts and think they can take a peptide that failed sterility and just filter it and be ok. That’s is asking for trouble
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