Energy Peptides Question
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@Neil-McCauley said in Energy Peptides Question:
How old is this rat? What do his labs look like, specifically testosterone and IGF-1?
He is 67. I have no idea what either is. I’m sure his testosterone is tanked. We had a discussion last night about messaging his doctor to have a Harmon panel added to the bloodwork that they ordered for him to have done in June. I know nothing about procuring hormones for men. I am in a clinical trial for the triple negative breast cancer that I had and I am on a testosterone cream as part of the trial. would he need to go to a different doctor to get testosterone or is that something I could source online like I do Peptides, after get his tested?
@jackiewatson I would highly recommend considering simply ordering your own labs directly via Ulta Labs. For me its usually cheaper than what I pay with insurance when ordered through my Doctor - and I can get them whenever I want and the results come back fast (within 24 hours for many tests, and few tests more than a few days).
I run my own labs for tracking roughly monthly.
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Okay, I sent a message in the patient portal to his GP asking him to run Test and IGF-1 and that I will call in the morning and make an appointment to come in next week, after he has his bloodwork. I agree that this is the correct first step.
@jackiew1 said in Energy Peptides Question:
Okay, I sent a message in the patient portal to his GP asking him to run Test and IGF-1 and that I will call in the morning and make an appointment to come in next week, after he has his bloodwork. I agree that this is the correct first step.
Sounds good. Ideally he's going to want to shoot for a T level that is at least 600 to 900. Avoid the temptation to go higher, more isn't necessarily better and lead to issues down the road. This will likely require a dosage of 100mg of test in a weekly injection. Many split that into 2 injects, some will go ultra small daily injects and do it subQ with an insulin pin, like we do with peptides. You can cross that bridge when you get there.
Get the blood draw first thing a.m. fasted. Post it up here, im sure many here are quite experienced in this arena. There is a plethora of information on TRT online, I am sure you can find great forums and message boards. TRT is a lot easier to navigate than peptides given its all legal, through a doctor with a script, and done through a compounding pharmacy.
I'd get the Testosterone thing worked out first before igf-1, but its good to get the marker now so you'll have a baseline. His igf-1 level is likely tanked as well. TRT will raise his igf-1 by approx 10 - 20%, but it won't be enough given his baseline will be so low. Many options for that, you can start at CJC-1295/IPA but again I'd put that off as a future project perhaps in early 2027.
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Thank you! All great info! I’m pretty well versed in women’s hormones, but no very little about men’s. Personally, I feel best with my test level around 100. But, I am very fit and active.
@jackiew1 said in Energy Peptides Question:
Thank you! All great info! I’m pretty well versed in women’s hormones, but no very little about men’s. Personally, I feel best with my test level around 100. But, I am very fit and active.
As a rule of thumb women have 10% of the testosterone as men. This would mean a range of 60 to 90. At 100, you're at the top of the range. This is great, but definitely don't go any higher. For your hubby, this means 600 to 900.
Your hubby can try the Testosterone gel first. There's a few hurdles to clear getting that covered by Medicare, much easier if either of you are still working and have traditional insurance. I think its worth trying that first. If insurance says no and your paying out of pocket, I'd probably steer you away from that and towards injects as gels can be quite expensive and in terms of bang for your buck, injects are better if you're paying out pocket and he's already well versed given the GLP research.
If you have the resources though, you can't beat the convenience of a transdermal gel over pinning.
I'd also look into DHEA for him as well. Transdermal gels are best bet and they can be quite affordable at a low dosage (25 mg/day). You can find them OTC, but also can be obtained via script and compounded at a pharmacy. If insurance covers it, even better. Small daily dosage goes a long way. Not strong enough to replace low T, but still worth it as an ancillary to TRT.
Main things to look for with both men and women using testosterone are blood lipids and blood pressure. Make sure your blood pressure stays at a healthy number. Make sure your red blood cells stay at a healthy number. Using a conservative T dosage and keeping numbers below range (100 for women/1000 for men at the absolute highest) helps this tremendously.
Maintaining a healthy weight and exercising goes a LONG way to keep blood pressure and weight in line. So does a little help from our beloved GLPs.
Getting testosterone and DHEA replaced will go a long way towards restoring energy and QOL. It will take months to restore some of that after having subpar levels of both for what was probably at least 10 to 15 years in his case. I'd work on that, and give it time, and tackle the IGF-1 issue down the road.
Good luck and feel free to fire away any questions you might have.
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Thank you for the info! I am a healthy weight, low body fat (16% per Hume, 17% per dexa). I am a fitness instructor and have always lifted weights I actually have low blood pressure. I get bloodwork done quarterly thru the Cancer Center
I appreciate all of the great info!
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don't waste your money on the test gel, either go with a test booster like Enclomiphene you can buy it from several vendors I have even seen it on grey. Plenty of TRT replacement services out there that do telehealth and labs. 100-200 bucks per month, a lot primary care DRs will send you to a endocrinologist who thinks 300 is a healthy lvl for older men and wont prescribe it, skip them just wasting your time.
Rythm health labs will tell you everything you need to know! is cheaper than going to my DR a lot of telehealth services will accept there labs as well.
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don't waste your money on the test gel, either go with a test booster like Enclomiphene you can buy it from several vendors I have even seen it on grey. Plenty of TRT replacement services out there that do telehealth and labs. 100-200 bucks per month, a lot primary care DRs will send you to a endocrinologist who thinks 300 is a healthy lvl for older men and wont prescribe it, skip them just wasting your time.
Rythm health labs will tell you everything you need to know! is cheaper than going to my DR a lot of telehealth services will accept there labs as well.
@brandenscheidecker said in Energy Peptides Question:
don't waste your money on the test gel, either go with a test booster like Enclomiphene you can buy it from several vendors I have even seen it on grey. Plenty of TRT replacement services out there that do telehealth and labs. 100-200 bucks per month, a lot primary care DRs will send you to a endocrinologist who thinks 300 is a healthy lvl for older men and wont prescribe it, skip them just wasting your time.
Rythm health labs will tell you everything you need to know! is cheaper than going to my DR a lot of telehealth services will accept there labs as well.
Enclomiphine is a young man's compound. It relies on using your endogenous HTPA in order to be effective, i.e. essentially jump-starting your own system. This man is 67, and that horse has left the barn, decades ago. His HTPA is simply not youthful enough to produce enough testosterone to move the needle. If he was 35 - 45, maybe that would buy him 5 to 10 years maximum, but thats a moot point now. Going to have to go exogenous now.
Secondly, hundreds of millions of patients worldwide use transdermal testosterone to great effect. Simply look at the sales and numbers. You never hear about them because 99% of those patients aren't online talking about it on a message board. Message boards are overrepresented with younger people using AAS and similar compounds in supra physiological dosages, so of course they will poo poo on using a gel given their history of pinning test and related AAS.
The real fact is that a majority of people on HRT do so with compounded gels, and have great results with it. It's far more convenient to use a gel over pinning for a plethora of reasons, which is why it is generally tried first to see if it works for you. If you're a non responder due to various reasons, usually someone who doesn't absorb well, then you can always switch to injects afterwards, no big deal. Many, in fact most, absorb well, OP herself as she mentioned.
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hell no give him something that works lol once a week IM will change his life.
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hell no give him something that works lol once a week IM will change his life.
@brandenscheidecker said:
hell no give him something that works lol once a week IM will change his life.
At his age of 67, absolutely. Going from very low T to pinning 100mg/week and pushing your T into the 600 to 900 range will be a drastic improvement in energy and overall quality of life. Expect fat loss, muscle gain, improvements in sleep, blood pressure, and glucose measurements as well. There is a reason why TRT is so popular.
Many go on TRT way to early in life when lifestyle changes can improve T levels drastically. However that's generally true for younger men. Once you're above 60, those leydig cells that produce testosterone just aren't as responsive as we need them to be.
The problem all goes back to mitochondria. The smooth endoplasmic reticulum is responsible for converting upstream hormones like pregnenolone into various andro metabolites that break down into testosterone, but the mitochondria are all dysfunctional which is essentially a broken chain in this process.
The current crop of peptide drugs do help energize existing mitochondria and even regrow new ones, but they are essentially the first gen and aren't effective enough to replace and regrow enough to be effective in this process for seniors who have a lot of mitochondria dysfunction. We do see increases in testosterone from using these drugs, however it's generally in younger people and/or only a small amount.
When this process is refined and we get 2nd/3rd gen drugs that do this effectively, replacing testosterone won't even be necessary any more for most people, because the mitochondria will be put back to work again and this process will holistically work again.
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@jackiew1 said:
He's going to the doctor Wednesday!
Excellent. Many who run into issues getting a TRT script from a general practitioner are often younger men. While I can sympathize with them, I can also understand the doctors point of view, I wouldn't be comfortable handing out scripts for test to random 25 year old either. Many have poor lifestyle, sleep, nutrition issues as well as histories with AAS usage.
I suspect your hubby at his age won't have any problems getting a script. There are pros and cons to going this way - you're going to save a ton of money not going to a TRT clinic.
The cons are you're not going to get a high level of knowledge/database of information from your GP. If you know how to navigate the internet/message boards/A.I. you can self manage and direct your own TRT care and use your doctor as a vehicle for getting scripts/labs/ancillaries. Many online end up going this route. Most who go the TRT clinic route are fairly independently wealthy and don't mind paying the $$$ to offload this process.
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Agreed. If it doesn't work out, we will find a clinic. But I think we can piece together enough nuggets of info to get what he needs from the doctor. Like I said, I am fairly comfortable with what I know about women's hormones and I optimize all of my levels, not just go by what they say is "good". Now I am diving into men's!
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My quoting doesnt work any more oh well. @neilmccauley what burns my ass about gp or pcp is theyll say in the same mouth full these younger men have a generational downward falling lower test levels but disuade against using test because eventually its a life time commitment. But we know stuff like enclomiphene works for us younger people. Has little to low side effects. And can do the job. But refuse that too! Modern medicine is no further away from labotomies and evil spirits in your blood. Next they'll give you a oatmeal enema and call that progress. Thanks kellog haha
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My rat is also feeling depleted after 1.5mo of R and starts strength training this week. MOTS-C is in the freezer but I’m reading wildly varying dosing from .5mg/daily to 5mg twice a week. Thoughts on where to start and end up? His work schedule involves traveling for 1 week every other week which currently makes it impossible to research on those weeks.
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My rat is also feeling depleted after 1.5mo of R and starts strength training this week. MOTS-C is in the freezer but I’m reading wildly varying dosing from .5mg/daily to 5mg twice a week. Thoughts on where to start and end up? His work schedule involves traveling for 1 week every other week which currently makes it impossible to research on those weeks.
My rat is also feeling depleted after 1.5mo of R and starts strength training this week. MOTS-C is in the freezer but I’m reading wildly varying dosing from .5mg/daily to 5mg twice a week. Thoughts on where to start and end up? His work schedule involves traveling for 1 week every other week which currently makes it impossible to research on those weeks.
When I did MOTS-c I started at 5mg week, split into 3 injections, to test for any reactions. After a few weeks I went to 10mg a week, split into 3 injections
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@brandenscheidecker said:
hell no give him something that works lol once a week IM will change his life.
At his age of 67, absolutely. Going from very low T to pinning 100mg/week and pushing your T into the 600 to 900 range will be a drastic improvement in energy and overall quality of life. Expect fat loss, muscle gain, improvements in sleep, blood pressure, and glucose measurements as well. There is a reason why TRT is so popular.
Many go on TRT way to early in life when lifestyle changes can improve T levels drastically. However that's generally true for younger men. Once you're above 60, those leydig cells that produce testosterone just aren't as responsive as we need them to be.
The problem all goes back to mitochondria. The smooth endoplasmic reticulum is responsible for converting upstream hormones like pregnenolone into various andro metabolites that break down into testosterone, but the mitochondria are all dysfunctional which is essentially a broken chain in this process.
The current crop of peptide drugs do help energize existing mitochondria and even regrow new ones, but they are essentially the first gen and aren't effective enough to replace and regrow enough to be effective in this process for seniors who have a lot of mitochondria dysfunction. We do see increases in testosterone from using these drugs, however it's generally in younger people and/or only a small amount.
When this process is refined and we get 2nd/3rd gen drugs that do this effectively, replacing testosterone won't even be necessary any more for most people, because the mitochondria will be put back to work again and this process will holistically work again.
@brandenscheidecker said:
hell no give him something that works lol once a week IM will change his life.
At his age of 67, absolutely. Going from very low T to pinning 100mg/week and pushing your T into the 600 to 900 range will be a drastic improvement in energy and overall quality of life. Expect fat loss, muscle gain, improvements in sleep, blood pressure, and glucose measurements as well. There is a reason why TRT is so popular.
Many go on TRT way to early in life when lifestyle changes can improve T levels drastically. However that's generally true for younger men. Once you're above 60, those leydig cells that produce testosterone just aren't as responsive as we need them to be.
The problem all goes back to mitochondria. The smooth endoplasmic reticulum is responsible for converting upstream hormones like pregnenolone into various andro metabolites that break down into testosterone, but the mitochondria are all dysfunctional which is essentially a broken chain in this process.
The current crop of peptide drugs do help energize existing mitochondria and even regrow new ones, but they are essentially the first gen and aren't effective enough to replace and regrow enough to be effective in this process for seniors who have a lot of mitochondria dysfunction. We do see increases in testosterone from using these drugs, however it's generally in younger people and/or only a small amount.
When this process is refined and we get 2nd/3rd gen drugs that do this effectively, replacing testosterone won't even be necessary any more for most people, because the mitochondria will be put back to work again and this process will holistically work again.
We got his testosterone level. It was 442. Now, to
Convince the Doctor he heeds 600-900 -
@brandenscheidecker said:
hell no give him something that works lol once a week IM will change his life.
At his age of 67, absolutely. Going from very low T to pinning 100mg/week and pushing your T into the 600 to 900 range will be a drastic improvement in energy and overall quality of life. Expect fat loss, muscle gain, improvements in sleep, blood pressure, and glucose measurements as well. There is a reason why TRT is so popular.
Many go on TRT way to early in life when lifestyle changes can improve T levels drastically. However that's generally true for younger men. Once you're above 60, those leydig cells that produce testosterone just aren't as responsive as we need them to be.
The problem all goes back to mitochondria. The smooth endoplasmic reticulum is responsible for converting upstream hormones like pregnenolone into various andro metabolites that break down into testosterone, but the mitochondria are all dysfunctional which is essentially a broken chain in this process.
The current crop of peptide drugs do help energize existing mitochondria and even regrow new ones, but they are essentially the first gen and aren't effective enough to replace and regrow enough to be effective in this process for seniors who have a lot of mitochondria dysfunction. We do see increases in testosterone from using these drugs, however it's generally in younger people and/or only a small amount.
When this process is refined and we get 2nd/3rd gen drugs that do this effectively, replacing testosterone won't even be necessary any more for most people, because the mitochondria will be put back to work again and this process will holistically work again.
We got his testosterone level. It was 442. Now, to
Convince the Doctor he heeds 600-900@jackiew1 said:
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We got his testosterone level. It was 442. Now, to
Convince the Doctor he heeds 600-900Surprisingly not bad for his age. What was his IGF-1? Did they test DHEA?
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Just seeing this thread today. Good discussion. Thanks! I am 58, last T test was 399, which is bottom of ‘normal’. Not really what I want to talk about here. I am specifically not interested in TRT unless I get a sign that it is a problem, which it doesn’t seem to be. I could just be an idiot.
What I want to talk about is how completely useless most PCP’s and the the medical industrial complex is. I have been saying for decades - partly of self-delusion and partly because it is the only way to describe it - that I am an operational athlete(yeah, I stole that from the old Teams guys). I am going to keep lifting, fighting, moving, etc. Your job is to treat me so I can continue. But that isn’t what doctors do. Doctors keep sick people alive. They don’t help healthy people optimize. If you find a doctor who does this (probably why we all fanboy/girl over Dr. Froeze) never let them go.
I am going through one of those periods where I see a bunch of doctors for various things and it is remarkable that you can go to your PCP, an ortho, and other people with your body bruised black from your spine to your ankle and have them remark that it must be quite painful.
Anyway, MOTS-C is a great addition to your stack for energy, particularly increasing exercise capacity.
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