Hospira 0.9% Bacteriostatic Sodium Chloride (30 mL)
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@Commander correct not with anything containing GHKCU
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I texted my Doc and he said NACL BAC all the way;
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He said it's used in compounded Semiglutide at their pharmacy. He said there is close to zero chance it would impact the peptide. So there you have it. He explained it's water and salt, which is an electrolyte (like, I didn't know that lol).
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He also said he wouldn't use it with copper formulations. He advised staying off of forums because you will open yourself up to a lot of misinformation. LOL
He sent me this:
Sodium chloride does not participate chemically with the peptide nor modify its sequence or structure under normal storage conditions from a note on compounding peptides for compounding pharmacies.Zero ISR, no itching its a game changer for MOTSC. I took 5mg this morning and feel great. No need for hydrocortisone. Ya
Let the AI searches begin. Claude gonna be busy
@Stevepep yeah, those guys on the forums are assholes!
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@Stevepep yeah, those guys on the forums are assholes!
@Snake-Pepskin I found that hysterical as well. I have gotten more useful information on here than from any other resource.
It was nice to learn that’s what the compounding pharmacies use. After yesterday I was wondering am I screwing up. Good to learn I am not
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I am very curious about this saline debate. So I asked AI about insulin. Insulin is the most common peptide known to man, so assuming the handling of lyophilized insulin can be generalized to other (non copper containing peptides), here’s what I learned.
Lyophilized (freeze-dried) insulin powder is typically dissolved using sterile or bacteriostatic water (often with a very slight acidic adjustment like dilute hydrochloric acid to help it go into solution), and then further diluted or adjusted with saline or a buffer like PBS to reach a neutral, physiological pH before use.
Insulin has very low solubility at a neutral pH, so protocols for dissolving dry insulin powder generally start with purified or sterile water adjusted to an acidic pH (around pH 2–3) to get the powder to fully dissolve.
Once the insulin is fully dissolved in the acidic liquid, it is usually diluted and neutralized using normal saline (0.9% NaCl) or phosphate-buffered saline (PBS) to reach a physiological pH (~7.2–7.4) so it does not cause tissue irritation or pain upon injection.So I think it is safe to assume we still should be dissolving peptides in sterile water (maybe some in acetic acid with sterile water) and then diluting up with saline for comfort when injecting. This will make reconstitution a two step process and may not be feasible if your dilution volume is very small (ie low mg vial content).
I think I will order some bac saline right now. -
I am very curious about this saline debate. So I asked AI about insulin. Insulin is the most common peptide known to man, so assuming the handling of lyophilized insulin can be generalized to other (non copper containing peptides), here’s what I learned.
Lyophilized (freeze-dried) insulin powder is typically dissolved using sterile or bacteriostatic water (often with a very slight acidic adjustment like dilute hydrochloric acid to help it go into solution), and then further diluted or adjusted with saline or a buffer like PBS to reach a neutral, physiological pH before use.
Insulin has very low solubility at a neutral pH, so protocols for dissolving dry insulin powder generally start with purified or sterile water adjusted to an acidic pH (around pH 2–3) to get the powder to fully dissolve.
Once the insulin is fully dissolved in the acidic liquid, it is usually diluted and neutralized using normal saline (0.9% NaCl) or phosphate-buffered saline (PBS) to reach a physiological pH (~7.2–7.4) so it does not cause tissue irritation or pain upon injection.So I think it is safe to assume we still should be dissolving peptides in sterile water (maybe some in acetic acid with sterile water) and then diluting up with saline for comfort when injecting. This will make reconstitution a two step process and may not be feasible if your dilution volume is very small (ie low mg vial content).
I think I will order some bac saline right now.Take away points:
- Dissolving a peptide in saline may result in incomplete reconstitution even if the vial looks clear. This is due to the ph at which lyophilized peptides dissolve.
- Direct administration of a purely hypotonic solution like sterile water can cause cellular hemolysis (bursting of cells) and significant localized pain.
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This all sounds greek to me….
So does that mean we can or can’t do it?Depends upon the compound. I still find peptideprotocols.com very helpful. I use it with SS31 and it also runs very well w/MOTS-C. If you look up the pep in the contents tab, you should find some reference to it.
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This all sounds greek to me….
So does that mean we can or can’t do it?Depends upon the compound. I still find peptideprotocols.com very helpful. I use it with SS31 and it also runs very well w/MOTS-C. If you look up the pep in the contents tab, you should find some reference to it.
@Eleanor I like it too. I posted what my doc said and it’s fine with ss31, motsc and nad. His internal compound pharmacy uses it and he gave me the note from the pharmacy I don’t remember exactly what it said but it will not interfere with the structure of the peptide. They us it for semiglutude and have formulations for the others that the fda board just voted on but have not yet fully approved. AI just searches the internet and all that bad information influences the result. It’s not reliable when it comes to peptides. People continue to post it as a reliable source but it is often very wrong and never says it doesn’t know
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@Commander Dissolve in a small amount of sterile water first. Maybe use a little acetic acid for the ones that are notoriously difficult to recon like AOD. (I don’t know how much aa to use unless I open a vial and pH test, which is easy enough to do.Target pH 3.0) Then fill to desired volume with saline for comfort injecting.
That’s what I’m going to do from now on except for the copper containing ones. -
@Commander Dissolve in a small amount of sterile water first. Maybe use a little acetic acid for the ones that are notoriously difficult to recon like AOD. (I don’t know how much aa to use unless I open a vial and pH test, which is easy enough to do.Target pH 3.0) Then fill to desired volume with saline for comfort injecting.
That’s what I’m going to do from now on except for the copper containing ones.@jennn Once again, we are talking about SS31, MotsC and NAD all of which can cause red welts. These are all fine with NACL BAC. No need to concoct anything; just buy Hospira NACL BAC. It's widely used in compounding, in IVs at the hospital to administer medications etc. It will not affect the composition of these peptides. Do not use with anything that has copper, even in a blend. For those three peptides, it is fine and even recommended for compounding.
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@Commander Yours is buffered the one I got Grey is not.
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@Eleanor I think NAD would be the safest to use with saline. I mean, they give it to people in bags of saline all the time as an IV in wellness clinics.
It’s the initial reconstitution that I question. Once in solution, I’m sure it’s fine to dilute up to volume with saline. But there’s a reason most lyophilized compounds are reconstituted in water. They likely need a lower pH than saline to get into solution initially.
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@Eleanor I think NAD would be the safest to use with saline. I mean, they give it to people in bags of saline all the time as an IV in wellness clinics.
It’s the initial reconstitution that I question. Once in solution, I’m sure it’s fine to dilute up to volume with saline. But there’s a reason most lyophilized compounds are reconstituted in water. They likely need a lower pH than saline to get into solution initially.
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@jennn Jenn Hospira NACL BAC is the very same PH as Hospira BAC.
Not too sure about that but I don't need to use it on my NAD+ buffered, nor do I see any instructions to do so on any protocol. In fact, there are a couple I've seen that say not to use it if NAD is already buffered. I'm no expert but I don't need it, I use it for other ones that leave a welt/sting.
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@Commander Yours is buffered the one I got Grey is not.
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@Commander Yours is buffered the one I got Grey is not.
Well I was told by “Emma” it was buffered, but it does sting a bit. Can’t trust the vendors to tell the truth anyway..
@Commander Crap maybe mine is too. I used the NACL BAC and it s really nice no reaction at all not even a little itching. The NAD buffered from Nexaph gave me no issues so I didn’t use it on that. The Emma stuff different story it works nice with NACL without it nice red mark.
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I want to know i it works with Cartalax. As one poster described it as 'spicy'. No kidding! Going to read up on it and probably burn a 10mg with it. No other way to know.
@stevepep @commander For the record, the buffered stings me slightly using regular BAC if I inject too fast but easily tolerable; no where near the sting that unbuff has.
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