StudzPeptides wants to upgrade testing
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@StudzPeptides I say cheap because you lack patience and planning - you went with a faster option to turn a profit quicker. And your profit margins are still padded so you can afford to test thoroughly and as stated people know that good quality testing takes time and costs money. Those that understand that, understand pricing trickles down. We're not idiots.
You came here and asked what we wanted, seemed like you genuinely card but you decided to go the cheap/fast route.@BeeKind Bee it has nothing to do with planning or patience, it has to due with margins, we run a low margin business, to keep things affordable, if we were running prices like most other places we would have absolutely no difficulty ordering a month ahead of time, but no lab regardless of that should take a month to release a COA
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@BeeKind I just am curious as to where you guys are getting the "cheap" route from, because 7x testing from both vanguard and freedom diagnostics is actually almost identical in price, with freedom coming in slightly higher, as I have said I understand and respect where you guys are coming from,
As far as the 14 day timeline on sterility, yes you are correct, that's 14 total days, not business days, the 19 business days of time it took actually equated to approximately 28 actual days
I am not ruling out vanguard in its entirety at all, and by no means am I ignoring your feedback, I am trying to be transparent in what we are trying to do at both quality and being able to keep things stocked
We don't operate at margins that most other companies that can plan a month ahead in terms of product, and again, there is no "cheap" in our testing cost, a 7x test from freedom cost $750 per test, and I am not asking you guys to take a step-back on your opinion, but asking you to understand where we are coming from
Whether or not you guys like freedom, does not discredit the fact they are a qualified lab, and as we have seen with the Eloralintide fiasco, ALL labs are just people that state they are qualified and can and will mess up simply
Again if you choose to move away from us until we can manage to test with Vanguard full time, I respect your decision and at the end of the day I can't do anything to convince, or would want to, you are all your own researchers, at the end of the day we are doing what we can to keep things, safe, available, and affordable
There are negative reports from EVERY single lab, whether or not we want to take it to heart and apply it is up to each individual person, I have talked to countless owners and price tools that completely disregard Vanguard as a high-end lab establishment, while others love, and other who live and die by Freedom, at the end of the day we are doing what we can
@StudzPeptides Good response. I wouldn’t overplay the opinions of a few. As you said, a qualified lab is what buyers are looking for, and 99% of those don’t really care or even consider which lab provided the testing, as long as it passes.
I for one think anything above PPID, Endo and Sterility is overkill. And to be honest, sterility sounds good but how many times have we seen that fail? I look at purity, fill, and Endo when I review a vial I intend to buy. I don’t look at heavy metals….
but I do love Metallica.
From a business and QA perspective I think you’re doing the right thing. Keep up the good work.
Just think, if you used Vanguard you could say your vials were filled 50% higher than label amount.
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@BeeKind Bee it has nothing to do with planning or patience, it has to due with margins, we run a low margin business, to keep things affordable, if we were running prices like most other places we would have absolutely no difficulty ordering a month ahead of time, but no lab regardless of that should take a month to release a COA
@StudzPeptides It is always about planning. But regardless you've got a fan with @mikebricker so don't worry about my opinion. I've already decided against you.
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@StudzPeptides It is always about planning. But regardless you've got a fan with @mikebricker so don't worry about my opinion. I've already decided against you.
@BeeKind Sounds good, I hope you have a great day, at the end of the day we are doing what we can whether or not it seems that way
I respect what you have to say, even if I don't agree with it
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@StudzPeptides It is always about planning. But regardless you've got a fan with @mikebricker so don't worry about my opinion. I've already decided against you.
@BeeKind Exactly. I’m a fan of Uther, Chengdu and Nexaph, since I buy boxes not single vials. But when I want to try something out, I’ll buy a vial or three from a single vial seller, and that’s StudzPeptides.
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@BeeKind Exactly. I’m a fan of Uther, Chengdu and Nexaph, since I buy boxes not single vials. But when I want to try something out, I’ll buy a vial or three from a single vial seller, and that’s StudzPeptides.
@mikebricker We also have great kit pricing:)
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@mikebricker We also have great kit pricing:)
@mikebricker We also have great kit pricing:)
@StudzPeptides Studz, you opened that door. So get me a 10 vial kit of 10mg Eloralintide for $350 and now you’re cooking…. Or a 10 vial kit 10mg of Retatrutide for $120….
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yeesh, check out for some deals coming and we may get close, but I dont know about beating that
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@Stevepep We've talked here before about why moving away from a lab like Vanguard is a tough call, and the concerns you all raised are completely fair.
That said, a lot of you were also critical of Vanguard when they made their mistake on the Eloralintide testing. It's a good reminder that no lab is 100% perfect or reliable.
Everyone has their preferred lab, and we respect that. But on the one batch we sent them, it took Vanguard 19 business days to deliver our full 7x COA. We wanted it to work, and we talked it through with them directly, but between the testing time and how long it took to go from error to fix, we just can't run our releases on that timeline.
We have 2 COAs from Vanguard, the burn blend capsules, and our domestic glutathione, that they (months ago), placed under the exact same lab ID, we have brought this up, due to multiple customer complaints, and still nothing has been changed or adjusted, and again the first of the 2 COAs, date back to 8/17
While I understand and support you guys making the decision to not buy from us due to testing, although these are all qualified labs, the experiences we have had on top of testing times and lack of fixes are just a combination of things that make it horrible to deal with on our end, and when things like this happen, how do we know things aren't being mistranslated or mis-typed etc
@StudzPeptides USP 71 is a 14 day test minimum, add 3-5 days for confirmation if you have a positive. Freedom does a PCR screen that is not sterility, its essentially bioburden. I test with Trustpointe and Vanguard. If I get sterility they send a preliminary pq and endotoxins result in about three days. Ive worked in QC and used to be an ISO 17025 auditor, what freedom and ILS pass off for results is embarrassing.
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@StudzPeptides USP 71 is a 14 day test minimum, add 3-5 days for confirmation if you have a positive. Freedom does a PCR screen that is not sterility, its essentially bioburden. I test with Trustpointe and Vanguard. If I get sterility they send a preliminary pq and endotoxins result in about three days. Ive worked in QC and used to be an ISO 17025 auditor, what freedom and ILS pass off for results is embarrassing.
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@BeeKind I just am curious as to where you guys are getting the "cheap" route from, because 7x testing from both vanguard and freedom diagnostics is actually almost identical in price, with freedom coming in slightly higher, as I have said I understand and respect where you guys are coming from,
As far as the 14 day timeline on sterility, yes you are correct, that's 14 total days, not business days, the 19 business days of time it took actually equated to approximately 28 actual days
I am not ruling out vanguard in its entirety at all, and by no means am I ignoring your feedback, I am trying to be transparent in what we are trying to do at both quality and being able to keep things stocked
We don't operate at margins that most other companies that can plan a month ahead in terms of product, and again, there is no "cheap" in our testing cost, a 7x test from freedom cost $750 per test, and I am not asking you guys to take a step-back on your opinion, but asking you to understand where we are coming from
Whether or not you guys like freedom, does not discredit the fact they are a qualified lab, and as we have seen with the Eloralintide fiasco, ALL labs are just people that state they are qualified and can and will mess up simply
Again if you choose to move away from us until we can manage to test with Vanguard full time, I respect your decision and at the end of the day I can't do anything to convince, or would want to, you are all your own researchers, at the end of the day we are doing what we can to keep things, safe, available, and affordable
There are negative reports from EVERY single lab, whether or not we want to take it to heart and apply it is up to each individual person, I have talked to countless owners and price tools that completely disregard Vanguard as a high-end lab establishment, while others love, and other who live and die by Freedom, at the end of the day we are doing what we can
@BeeKind I just am curious as to where you guys are getting the "cheap" route from, because 7x testing from both vanguard and freedom diagnostics is actually almost identical in price, with freedom coming in slightly higher, as I have said I understand and respect where you guys are coming from,
As far as the 14 day timeline on sterility, yes you are correct, that's 14 total days, not business days, the 19 business days of time it took actually equated to approximately 28 actual days
I am not ruling out vanguard in its entirety at all, and by no means am I ignoring your feedback, I am trying to be transparent in what we are trying to do at both quality and being able to keep things stocked
We don't operate at margins that most other companies that can plan a month ahead in terms of product, and again, there is no "cheap" in our testing cost, a 7x test from freedom cost $750 per test, and I am not asking you guys to take a step-back on your opinion, but asking you to understand where we are coming from
Whether or not you guys like freedom, does not discredit the fact they are a qualified lab, and as we have seen with the Eloralintide fiasco, ALL labs are just people that state they are qualified and can and will mess up simply
Again if you choose to move away from us until we can manage to test with Vanguard full time, I respect your decision and at the end of the day I can't do anything to convince, or would want to, you are all your own researchers, at the end of the day we are doing what we can to keep things, safe, available, and affordable
There are negative reports from EVERY single lab, whether or not we want to take it to heart and apply it is up to each individual person, I have talked to countless owners and price tools that completely disregard Vanguard as a high-end lab establishment, while others love, and other who live and die by Freedom, at the end of the day we are doing what we can
Studz it’s understandable your frustration with Vanguard on their timing and not being able to fix a coa for you for months. But I believe the general consensus and seems to be growing even outside this community is that Freedom is absolutely unreliable. The bottom of the barrel, just above absolute made up scam labs. Your business and your decision if you want to continue to use Freedom, but at least for this community and maybe others who are starting to feel the same way, there’s nothing really separating you from the retail competition out there then. You have good prices for retail, and you are responsive in this community, but it’s the 3rd factor of using a better lab that was the home run for you in my opinion. Take away the lab aspect and then I feel like I should just buy grey at even cheaper prices.
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@StudzPeptides USP 71 is a 14 day test minimum, add 3-5 days for confirmation if you have a positive. Freedom does a PCR screen that is not sterility, its essentially bioburden. I test with Trustpointe and Vanguard. If I get sterility they send a preliminary pq and endotoxins result in about three days. Ive worked in QC and used to be an ISO 17025 auditor, what freedom and ILS pass off for results is embarrassing.
@pure_pep They don't care they know Freedom stinks and its been well documented. They want fast and they want to win on price not quality. They order grey like we can do ourselves and get it tested by a crappy lab. Freedom has passed peptides for endotoxins and sterility that failed at other labs. IMO if I want grey with crappy testing I can get it myself far cheaper and then test on my own than to deal with a company that preaches they want to upgrade their testing, than asks this well informed group and then goes the opposite direction.
They don't practice what they preach, bottom line.
Freedom is being called out by group buys, on telegram and we have downright proof on here that they are horrible yet these guys run to them. Thats all you really need to know about thier business practices and this after they came on here acting like they give a crap. Buyer beware. They got me and I was stupid enough to fall far it and sold thousands of dollars of stuff for them. Never again, foul me once
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@StudzPeptides Good response. I wouldn’t overplay the opinions of a few. As you said, a qualified lab is what buyers are looking for, and 99% of those don’t really care or even consider which lab provided the testing, as long as it passes.
I for one think anything above PPID, Endo and Sterility is overkill. And to be honest, sterility sounds good but how many times have we seen that fail? I look at purity, fill, and Endo when I review a vial I intend to buy. I don’t look at heavy metals…. but I do love Metallica.
From a business and QA perspective I think you’re doing the right thing. Keep up the good work.
Just think, if you used Vanguard you could say your vials were filled 50% higher than label amount.@mikebricker This sounds like an N-1.
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This community has quite a bit of people who post on here, but considerable more who don't post and just browse and read our posts for recommendations on where to buy and what to look out for like which labs are reputable and which are not. I am sure @studzpeptides is well aware of this and that's why he's here on this community for exposure and more business. I will always like him and give him credit in that he never came here like other vendors spamming their website and hijacking other threads. He was always upfront and honest so that's a plus in my book.
The truth is, the peptide industry is WAY oversaturated with vendors now. There is no real barrier to entry in this business. The hardest part is getting Credit Card processing and keeping it from getting shutting down. @studzpeptides is late to this business and who knows how many new retail vendors are popping up daily. Anyone can put up a website tomorrow and start reselling peptides just like some guys do at 24 hour fitness and some housewives do at Lifetime. Just reselling shit out of their gym bag. It is a race to the bottom, but if you want to stand out from the competition, then you do what @studzpeptides seemed to wanted to do, and come on this board and ask what we want and deliver on that. The fact that this thread has so many views and replies, people constantly checking his site for Vanguard COAs, prove that it was working. Look at how many other vendors are mentioned here and get little to no engagement at all because they are a dime a dozen.
But again his business, and is free to run it how he wants to. You will have some like @mikebricker who are fine with Freedom. His body, his money. But I imagine the overwhelming majority of informed peptide users that post here, and browse here, do care about what they are injecting and who is testing it. If you want to take away business from the big established and credible guys like Nexaph, you have to hit a home run out of the park. A double is not going to do it anymore with all the competition out there.
It's like being sandwiched between Walmart on the bottom end, and Target on the top end. Either be Walmart or be Target. Unfortunately you can't be Walmart as that is just buying grey directly or from Nexaph. So instead be the Target and offer better quality (testing) while still trying to be somewhat competitive in pricing.
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I hear you, @stevepep
When we first joined this site, nearly every lab we used drew criticism. We moved to Freedom, and apart from some members here on Peptide Critic, the feedback has been very positive. We’re still a young company and still going through growing pains, but we stand behind the quality of what we ship.
Every lab makes mistakes, and that includes Freedom and Vanguard. I noticed you were asking about Vanguard’s issues in another thread too. Hundreds of peptide companies use Freedom, which suggests they’re getting a lot right. Their customer service and response times have also been excellent, which hasn’t been our experience with Vanguard.
That doesn’t mean we’ll stay with Freedom forever. If the data tells us to switch, we will. I am not trying to convince you guys of anything, just being honest with what we are doing and why, and all it is met with is harsh criticism, at the end of the day, every lab is only as good as the trust any individual researcher has in it, I will look into places like trustpoint, but Vanguard has made it horrible in every fashion to work with
We have had only 4 tests every fail with Vanguard, we sent 2/4 of those items to freedom to compare, yet you guys also push aside the fact those results were also within 3% variance from lab to lab
That being said, we are ALWAYS trying to improve, I will leave it at that on my end whether or not you want to believe that I respect your decision and opinion
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I hear you, @stevepep
When we first joined this site, nearly every lab we used drew criticism. We moved to Freedom, and apart from some members here on Peptide Critic, the feedback has been very positive. We’re still a young company and still going through growing pains, but we stand behind the quality of what we ship.
Every lab makes mistakes, and that includes Freedom and Vanguard. I noticed you were asking about Vanguard’s issues in another thread too. Hundreds of peptide companies use Freedom, which suggests they’re getting a lot right. Their customer service and response times have also been excellent, which hasn’t been our experience with Vanguard.
That doesn’t mean we’ll stay with Freedom forever. If the data tells us to switch, we will. I am not trying to convince you guys of anything, just being honest with what we are doing and why, and all it is met with is harsh criticism, at the end of the day, every lab is only as good as the trust any individual researcher has in it, I will look into places like trustpoint, but Vanguard has made it horrible in every fashion to work with
We have had only 4 tests every fail with Vanguard, we sent 2/4 of those items to freedom to compare, yet you guys also push aside the fact those results were also within 3% variance from lab to lab
That being said, we are ALWAYS trying to improve, I will leave it at that on my end whether or not you want to believe that I respect your decision and opinion
@StudzPeptides ask Cain at Nexaph about Freedom and they are the standard. First off you used a lab no one has ever heard of and you were criticized for that. First corner cut and I should have read the tea leaves then. I do wish Freedom and ILS would get their act together and trust me there is more about to come out on this. It’s your business if you want to use subpar testing that’s on you and people can decide what they want to do. Some people won’t know or care but that market is declining. There is one who posts on here all the time if you want to go by his input I wish you the best of luck. The competition is growing people have lots of options if you think just being the cheapest gets you there someone else will just be cheaper. It becomes a race to the bottom and it’s bad business IMO. You keep talking about margins which is code word for “we have to cut corners” It just takes one person getting sick because of a BS sterility test or endotoxin test and you are under water. There are many companies over the years whose obituaries were written based on these tactics
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Well, I understand Quality Assurance and Quality Control as well as the next guy, probably better. I was QA Officer at two different Navy Nuclear Submarine repair facilities, and QA Director at the Navy Seal Headquarters. I’ve seen piss poor repair activities get hammered, then turn around into one of our best. I’ve also seen top activities get complacent and fall down to substandard performance. I’m not talking about over years, I’m talking about year to year. I assume if it can happen there it can happen with Testing Labs just as easily.
So piss poor six months to a year ago, and systematic improvement over that year to a top performer. It happens all the time. -
Well, I understand Quality Assurance and Quality Control as well as the next guy, probably better. I was QA Officer at two different Navy Nuclear Submarine repair facilities, and QA Director at the Navy Seal Headquarters. I’ve seen piss poor repair activities get hammered, then turn around into one of our best. I’ve also seen top activities get complacent and fall down to substandard performance. I’m not talking about over years, I’m talking about year to year. I assume if it can happen there it can happen with Testing Labs just as easily.
So piss poor six months to a year ago, and systematic improvement over that year to a top performer. It happens all the time.@mikebricker true but freedoms issues are recent so there’s that. At least ILS was trying to hire a QC officer to help fix their issues. And how do you know who made systemic improvements? The lab you love operates like it’s 1975 from a tech standpoint. That alone is kind of telling. If their front end technology is bad makes you wonder about the back end. Changes can be made for sure and companies and labs can improve. We just haven’t seen that with Freedom. We would need something quantifiable to point too and I think most people would be open to it.
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@mikebricker true but freedoms issues are recent so there’s that. At least ILS was trying to hire a QC officer to help fix their issues. And how do you know who made systemic improvements? The lab you love operates like it’s 1975 from a tech standpoint. That alone is kind of telling. If their front end technology is bad makes you wonder about the back end. Changes can be made for sure and companies and labs can improve. We just haven’t seen that with Freedom. We would need something quantifiable to point too and I think most people would be open to it.
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@mikebricker true but freedoms issues are recent so there’s that. At least ILS was trying to hire a QC officer to help fix their issues. And how do you know who made systemic improvements? The lab you love operates like it’s 1975 from a tech standpoint. That alone is kind of telling. If their front end technology is bad makes you wonder about the back end. Changes can be made for sure and companies and labs can improve. We just haven’t seen that with Freedom. We would need something quantifiable to point too and I think most people would be open to it.
@Stevepep We don’t cut corners. Freedom costs us more than Vanguard would, so this was never about saving money. I get that some people here don’t like Freedom, but that’s not the same as us cutting corners.
if we were cutting corners, why would we come on here and make ourselves so open about what we do, what you're accusing us of is just wrong
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