StudzPeptides wants to upgrade testing
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@StudzPeptides Good response. I wouldn’t overplay the opinions of a few. As you said, a qualified lab is what buyers are looking for, and 99% of those don’t really care or even consider which lab provided the testing, as long as it passes.
I for one think anything above PPID, Endo and Sterility is overkill. And to be honest, sterility sounds good but how many times have we seen that fail? I look at purity, fill, and Endo when I review a vial I intend to buy. I don’t look at heavy metals….
but I do love Metallica.
From a business and QA perspective I think you’re doing the right thing. Keep up the good work.
Just think, if you used Vanguard you could say your vials were filled 50% higher than label amount.
@mikebricker This sounds like an N-1.
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This community has quite a bit of people who post on here, but considerable more who don't post and just browse and read our posts for recommendations on where to buy and what to look out for like which labs are reputable and which are not. I am sure @studzpeptides is well aware of this and that's why he's here on this community for exposure and more business. I will always like him and give him credit in that he never came here like other vendors spamming their website and hijacking other threads. He was always upfront and honest so that's a plus in my book.
The truth is, the peptide industry is WAY oversaturated with vendors now. There is no real barrier to entry in this business. The hardest part is getting Credit Card processing and keeping it from getting shutting down. @studzpeptides is late to this business and who knows how many new retail vendors are popping up daily. Anyone can put up a website tomorrow and start reselling peptides just like some guys do at 24 hour fitness and some housewives do at Lifetime. Just reselling shit out of their gym bag. It is a race to the bottom, but if you want to stand out from the competition, then you do what @studzpeptides seemed to wanted to do, and come on this board and ask what we want and deliver on that. The fact that this thread has so many views and replies, people constantly checking his site for Vanguard COAs, prove that it was working. Look at how many other vendors are mentioned here and get little to no engagement at all because they are a dime a dozen.
But again his business, and is free to run it how he wants to. You will have some like @mikebricker who are fine with Freedom. His body, his money. But I imagine the overwhelming majority of informed peptide users that post here, and browse here, do care about what they are injecting and who is testing it. If you want to take away business from the big established and credible guys like Nexaph, you have to hit a home run out of the park. A double is not going to do it anymore with all the competition out there.
It's like being sandwiched between Walmart on the bottom end, and Target on the top end. Either be Walmart or be Target. Unfortunately you can't be Walmart as that is just buying grey directly or from Nexaph. So instead be the Target and offer better quality (testing) while still trying to be somewhat competitive in pricing.
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I hear you, @stevepep
When we first joined this site, nearly every lab we used drew criticism. We moved to Freedom, and apart from some members here on Peptide Critic, the feedback has been very positive. We’re still a young company and still going through growing pains, but we stand behind the quality of what we ship.
Every lab makes mistakes, and that includes Freedom and Vanguard. I noticed you were asking about Vanguard’s issues in another thread too. Hundreds of peptide companies use Freedom, which suggests they’re getting a lot right. Their customer service and response times have also been excellent, which hasn’t been our experience with Vanguard.
That doesn’t mean we’ll stay with Freedom forever. If the data tells us to switch, we will. I am not trying to convince you guys of anything, just being honest with what we are doing and why, and all it is met with is harsh criticism, at the end of the day, every lab is only as good as the trust any individual researcher has in it, I will look into places like trustpoint, but Vanguard has made it horrible in every fashion to work with
We have had only 4 tests every fail with Vanguard, we sent 2/4 of those items to freedom to compare, yet you guys also push aside the fact those results were also within 3% variance from lab to lab
That being said, we are ALWAYS trying to improve, I will leave it at that on my end whether or not you want to believe that I respect your decision and opinion
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I hear you, @stevepep
When we first joined this site, nearly every lab we used drew criticism. We moved to Freedom, and apart from some members here on Peptide Critic, the feedback has been very positive. We’re still a young company and still going through growing pains, but we stand behind the quality of what we ship.
Every lab makes mistakes, and that includes Freedom and Vanguard. I noticed you were asking about Vanguard’s issues in another thread too. Hundreds of peptide companies use Freedom, which suggests they’re getting a lot right. Their customer service and response times have also been excellent, which hasn’t been our experience with Vanguard.
That doesn’t mean we’ll stay with Freedom forever. If the data tells us to switch, we will. I am not trying to convince you guys of anything, just being honest with what we are doing and why, and all it is met with is harsh criticism, at the end of the day, every lab is only as good as the trust any individual researcher has in it, I will look into places like trustpoint, but Vanguard has made it horrible in every fashion to work with
We have had only 4 tests every fail with Vanguard, we sent 2/4 of those items to freedom to compare, yet you guys also push aside the fact those results were also within 3% variance from lab to lab
That being said, we are ALWAYS trying to improve, I will leave it at that on my end whether or not you want to believe that I respect your decision and opinion
@StudzPeptides ask Cain at Nexaph about Freedom and they are the standard. First off you used a lab no one has ever heard of and you were criticized for that. First corner cut and I should have read the tea leaves then. I do wish Freedom and ILS would get their act together and trust me there is more about to come out on this. It’s your business if you want to use subpar testing that’s on you and people can decide what they want to do. Some people won’t know or care but that market is declining. There is one who posts on here all the time if you want to go by his input I wish you the best of luck. The competition is growing people have lots of options if you think just being the cheapest gets you there someone else will just be cheaper. It becomes a race to the bottom and it’s bad business IMO. You keep talking about margins which is code word for “we have to cut corners” It just takes one person getting sick because of a BS sterility test or endotoxin test and you are under water. There are many companies over the years whose obituaries were written based on these tactics
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Well, I understand Quality Assurance and Quality Control as well as the next guy, probably better. I was QA Officer at two different Navy Nuclear Submarine repair facilities, and QA Director at the Navy Seal Headquarters. I’ve seen piss poor repair activities get hammered, then turn around into one of our best. I’ve also seen top activities get complacent and fall down to substandard performance. I’m not talking about over years, I’m talking about year to year. I assume if it can happen there it can happen with Testing Labs just as easily.
So piss poor six months to a year ago, and systematic improvement over that year to a top performer. It happens all the time. -
Well, I understand Quality Assurance and Quality Control as well as the next guy, probably better. I was QA Officer at two different Navy Nuclear Submarine repair facilities, and QA Director at the Navy Seal Headquarters. I’ve seen piss poor repair activities get hammered, then turn around into one of our best. I’ve also seen top activities get complacent and fall down to substandard performance. I’m not talking about over years, I’m talking about year to year. I assume if it can happen there it can happen with Testing Labs just as easily.
So piss poor six months to a year ago, and systematic improvement over that year to a top performer. It happens all the time.@mikebricker true but freedoms issues are recent so there’s that. At least ILS was trying to hire a QC officer to help fix their issues. And how do you know who made systemic improvements? The lab you love operates like it’s 1975 from a tech standpoint. That alone is kind of telling. If their front end technology is bad makes you wonder about the back end. Changes can be made for sure and companies and labs can improve. We just haven’t seen that with Freedom. We would need something quantifiable to point too and I think most people would be open to it.
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@mikebricker true but freedoms issues are recent so there’s that. At least ILS was trying to hire a QC officer to help fix their issues. And how do you know who made systemic improvements? The lab you love operates like it’s 1975 from a tech standpoint. That alone is kind of telling. If their front end technology is bad makes you wonder about the back end. Changes can be made for sure and companies and labs can improve. We just haven’t seen that with Freedom. We would need something quantifiable to point too and I think most people would be open to it.
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@mikebricker true but freedoms issues are recent so there’s that. At least ILS was trying to hire a QC officer to help fix their issues. And how do you know who made systemic improvements? The lab you love operates like it’s 1975 from a tech standpoint. That alone is kind of telling. If their front end technology is bad makes you wonder about the back end. Changes can be made for sure and companies and labs can improve. We just haven’t seen that with Freedom. We would need something quantifiable to point too and I think most people would be open to it.
@Stevepep We don’t cut corners. Freedom costs us more than Vanguard would, so this was never about saving money. I get that some people here don’t like Freedom, but that’s not the same as us cutting corners.
if we were cutting corners, why would we come on here and make ourselves so open about what we do, what you're accusing us of is just wrong
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@Stevepep We don’t cut corners. Freedom costs us more than Vanguard would, so this was never about saving money. I get that some people here don’t like Freedom, but that’s not the same as us cutting corners.
if we were cutting corners, why would we come on here and make ourselves so open about what we do, what you're accusing us of is just wrong
@StudzPeptides you come on here to drum up business, you’re fooling no one. You asked and people gave you every opportunity. Me included. I took you at your word. You aren’t talking your way out of this with your nice guy routine. You use Freedom because they are fast which means you can sell your products right away. Did you ever wonder how they test so fast with the pass/fail nonsense?
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@mikebricker you can’t be this unaware you post on here more than me and that’s saying something. You want to point to one issue with a lab to make a point that’s fine. Do a search and see all the freedom issues. The one thing they do well is get you your 99pct results in a day or two. Nexaph literally called them out. Peter has called them out. Other labs have as well because they are worried they will screw up the market when someone gets hurt and that ruins it for everyone.
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@mikebricker you can’t be this unaware you post on here more than me and that’s saying something. You want to point to one issue with a lab to make a point that’s fine. Do a search and see all the freedom issues. The one thing they do well is get you your 99pct results in a day or two. Nexaph literally called them out. Peter has called them out. Other labs have as well because they are worried they will screw up the market when someone gets hurt and that ruins it for everyone.
@Stevepep I hear you. How about some links? You can DM me if you don’t want to post online. I just joined Critic a few months ago. So no, I haven’t seen the Freedom issues. All I’ve seen so far are third hand “you can get 99% no matter what” with them, and third hand “K A always comes in light”. Other than that just the weight problem with Vanguard.
Years in QA and QC have taught me you never get caught the first time you do something. So how many incorrect weight calcs were done by Vanguard before the Critic caught them? Probably more than one…. -
@Stevepep I hear you. How about some links? You can DM me if you don’t want to post online. I just joined Critic a few months ago. So no, I haven’t seen the Freedom issues. All I’ve seen so far are third hand “you can get 99% no matter what” with them, and third hand “K A always comes in light”. Other than that just the weight problem with Vanguard.
Years in QA and QC have taught me you never get caught the first time you do something. So how many incorrect weight calcs were done by Vanguard before the Critic caught them? Probably more than one….@mikebricker https://testing.nexaph.com/TES1007182026-21
Right on Nexaph website take a look at the two different mass/purity COA’s.
And I am open to Krause they have two samples right now I am just waiting on them. I could care less about the lab name we just want accuracy in all phases and it’s not that hard
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I hear you, @stevepep
When we first joined this site, nearly every lab we used drew criticism. We moved to Freedom, and apart from some members here on Peptide Critic, the feedback has been very positive. We’re still a young company and still going through growing pains, but we stand behind the quality of what we ship.
Every lab makes mistakes, and that includes Freedom and Vanguard. I noticed you were asking about Vanguard’s issues in another thread too. Hundreds of peptide companies use Freedom, which suggests they’re getting a lot right. Their customer service and response times have also been excellent, which hasn’t been our experience with Vanguard.
That doesn’t mean we’ll stay with Freedom forever. If the data tells us to switch, we will. I am not trying to convince you guys of anything, just being honest with what we are doing and why, and all it is met with is harsh criticism, at the end of the day, every lab is only as good as the trust any individual researcher has in it, I will look into places like trustpoint, but Vanguard has made it horrible in every fashion to work with
We have had only 4 tests every fail with Vanguard, we sent 2/4 of those items to freedom to compare, yet you guys also push aside the fact those results were also within 3% variance from lab to lab
That being said, we are ALWAYS trying to improve, I will leave it at that on my end whether or not you want to believe that I respect your decision and opinion
Hundreds of peptide companies use Freedom, which suggests they’re getting a lot right.
Or they are using Freedom, because they always get a high purity % (which again now we are finding out is not accurate) and you get back results quickly. Don't make the mistake thinking because so many use them, they are good and respectable. At the end of the day, its the consumer who chooses who is a leader and who isn't. And this community as well as others that @stevepep has mentioned in group buys, telegrams etc are steering away from Freedom as people are questioning their actual testing capability being accurate.
Perhaps you are doing amazing sales and having nice growth, but I suspect if that was the case you wouldn't really be here. You are looking for more business, and this thread and community has told you what it takes to get it from us. Everyday because of sites like this, the consumer is becoming more educated and aware what we should expect and look for. If there was no competition out there you could get away with not even offering a COA, But again the market is saturated and providing testing and trackable COAs has become the bare minimum we all expect now. If it's repeat business you are looking for, then you know what you need to do.
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Hundreds of peptide companies use Freedom, which suggests they’re getting a lot right.
Or they are using Freedom, because they always get a high purity % (which again now we are finding out is not accurate) and you get back results quickly. Don't make the mistake thinking because so many use them, they are good and respectable. At the end of the day, its the consumer who chooses who is a leader and who isn't. And this community as well as others that @stevepep has mentioned in group buys, telegrams etc are steering away from Freedom as people are questioning their actual testing capability being accurate.
Perhaps you are doing amazing sales and having nice growth, but I suspect if that was the case you wouldn't really be here. You are looking for more business, and this thread and community has told you what it takes to get it from us. Everyday because of sites like this, the consumer is becoming more educated and aware what we should expect and look for. If there was no competition out there you could get away with not even offering a COA, But again the market is saturated and providing testing and trackable COAs has become the bare minimum we all expect now. If it's repeat business you are looking for, then you know what you need to do.
@denti Very valid statement, and I appreciate the honesty and proffessionalism and also understanding, I dont think it ever hurts to ask more people what they prefer and thats what this comes from
I also understand you guys are very vanguard heavy in preference, which is also why I ask these things, because again there is alos a very LARGE part of the community that love freedom, through and through, so that's why I come on here and ask
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@mikebricker you can’t be this unaware you post on here more than me and that’s saying something. You want to point to one issue with a lab to make a point that’s fine. Do a search and see all the freedom issues. The one thing they do well is get you your 99pct results in a day or two. Nexaph literally called them out. Peter has called them out. Other labs have as well because they are worried they will screw up the market when someone gets hurt and that ruins it for everyone.
@mikebricker you can’t be this unaware you post on here more than me and that’s saying something. You want to point to one issue with a lab to make a point that’s fine. Do a search and see all the freedom issues. The one thing they do well is get you your 99pct results in a day or two. Nexaph literally called them out. Peter has called them out. Other labs have as well because they are worried they will screw up the market when someone gets hurt and that ruins it for everyone.
^^^ THIS SO MUCH.
Is Vanguard perfect? Absolutely not. Is Freedom basically untrustworthy and trash at this point? Yeah, pretty much. So it's an easy choice.
Studz came here because he wants our business. Those who post and those who just browse. Yeah it sucks for him it takes a month to get a COA and that's capital for him tied up in inventory that is just sitting there that is not being turned over. But this is the business he chose to get in, which again has little to no barriers to entry. So it's the price he must pay if he wants more business as the consumer becomes more educated daily because of sites like this. If he just wants one time business off people who don't know any better, then he should just go advertise on FB and TikTok. But eventually those consumers also become educated and end up in places like here.
Nexaph has earned its reputation and Goliath position in this industry for a reason. It wasn't because they cut corners. Other high end retailers like Peptidology also earned their reputation even though their prices are sky high. It's because they also don't cut corners.
@studzpeptides You don't lyophilize yourself. You are a reseller from the same places I can purchase from. Not sure what you expect from us. To give you a pass for using Freedom because Vanguard takes so long? There is nothing proprietary to your business that puts you in a position to get a pass from us, the consumer.
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@mikebricker https://testing.nexaph.com/TES1007182026-21
Right on Nexaph website take a look at the two different mass/purity COA’s.
And I am open to Krause they have two samples right now I am just waiting on them. I could care less about the lab name we just want accuracy in all phases and it’s not that hard
@Stevepep Interesting. I’m assuming this isn’t an isolated incident, so there must be dozens like this?
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@Stevepep Interesting. I’m assuming this isn’t an isolated incident, so there must be dozens like this?
@mikebricker yup, here is another, there are more than dozens https://community.peptidecritic.com/topic/3449/freedom-again?_=1793744446457. Not gonna do the work for ya though
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@denti Very valid statement, and I appreciate the honesty and proffessionalism and also understanding, I dont think it ever hurts to ask more people what they prefer and thats what this comes from
I also understand you guys are very vanguard heavy in preference, which is also why I ask these things, because again there is alos a very LARGE part of the community that love freedom, through and through, so that's why I come on here and ask
@StudzPeptides If it makes you feel any better I hate them all. They all make mistakes.
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@StudzPeptides If it makes you feel any better I hate them all. They all make mistakes.
@Randy Kinda the message I am trying to portray, but I appreciate you
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@StudzPeptides If it makes you feel any better I hate them all. They all make mistakes.
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