Tesa vs CJC?
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I don't have experience with CJC but did a recent cycle of 16 weeks of Tesa 1mg at night before bed Sunday through Thursday. Took Friday and Saturday off. The injection stung a little but that went away within 30 minutes or so. Wasn’t bad - at least not like GHK-Cu.
I was given some great advice before I started Tesa which I will pass along. If you can, try to do a DXA scan. I bought a 3-scan package for $200 from a scanning center where I live. I did the first scan this year in January and a follow up scan in late April. My visceral fat dropped 37%.
Full disclosure: I am a 60 year old male. Since January, I have been taking testosterone and researching Reta, GHK-Cu, Semax/Selank and recently added NAD+ in late April. I workout 4 to 5 days per week mixing strength and cardio.
My doctor recommended CJC/Ipa but I wanted to complete my cycle of Tesa first. TBH, I bought a bunch from Nexaph so I’ll probably finish that before I consider CJC/Ipa.
If you have any other questions about Tesa, I will try to answer them from my experience, but I am not a doctor and none of this is medical advice. I’m just an old dude that likes taking drugs.
@judgetoo how was your sleep with Tesa? I just started 1 mg, it does sting as you describe, but on the second night my sleep was bad (high stress). I am careful because I tried CJC/Ipa for a week previously and my sleep was a complete mess with it. Without interventions my sleep is good.
attentiion is all you need
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@judgetoo how was your sleep with Tesa? I just started 1 mg, it does sting as you describe, but on the second night my sleep was bad (high stress). I am careful because I tried CJC/Ipa for a week previously and my sleep was a complete mess with it. Without interventions my sleep is good.
@vpeptides I sleep well when using Tesa or at least I don't really notice any disruption. I haven't tried CJC/Ipa (although it's on my radar) so I don't have a good comparison. My sleep has never been stellar due to job stress. Sorry I'm not much help other than to say Tesa hasn't affected it negatively as far as I can tell in my experience.
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@judgetoo how was your sleep with Tesa? I just started 1 mg, it does sting as you describe, but on the second night my sleep was bad (high stress). I am careful because I tried CJC/Ipa for a week previously and my sleep was a complete mess with it. Without interventions my sleep is good.
@vpeptides said:
@judgetoo how was your sleep with Tesa? I just started 1 mg, it does sting as you describe, but on the second night my sleep was bad (high stress). I am careful because I tried CJC/Ipa for a week previously and my sleep was a complete mess with it. Without interventions my sleep is good.
You can inject first thing a.m. fasted, don't eat for 2 hours. In fact, there are many advantages to doing this.
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Since you’re researching Reta and depending on your last meal timing and when you pin before bed, you may be blunting the effects of the Tesa due to being in a non-fasted state.
I pin in the morning and then wait 2-3 hours before eating.@HockeyRat @Neil-McCauley What are the advantages of the morning application (other than low insulin)? I read that the before-sleep use is done to align with the natural pulse.
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@HockeyRat @Neil-McCauley What are the advantages of the morning application (other than low insulin)? I read that the before-sleep use is done to align with the natural pulse.
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@vpeptides The advantage is that you’re not wasting your peptide. If you weren’t researching Reta at the same time I would stick with pinning at night to take advantage of the natural HGH release.
@vpeptides The advantage is that you’re not wasting your peptide. If you weren’t researching Reta at the same time I would stick with pinning at night to take advantage of the natural HGH release.
How does reta impact natural HGH (assuming you pin 2+ hours after your last meal)?
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@vpeptides The advantage is that you’re not wasting your peptide. If you weren’t researching Reta at the same time I would stick with pinning at night to take advantage of the natural HGH release.
How does reta impact natural HGH (assuming you pin 2+ hours after your last meal)?
@derekg1 Reta slows gastric emptying but it isn't anything crazy, The standard recomendation is for optimal results two hours fasted before bed, with a GLP on board 3 hours. The extra hour more than covers the slower gastric emptying on Reta.
Plus its a good idea without GHRH or GHRPS to make this a habbit. Its well documented that 3 hour fast alone is enough to improve sleep, recovery and metabolism.
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I believe the issue is blood sugars, when they're elevated it contributes to somatostatin which is the growth hormone blocking hormone. Some people will fast and still have high blood sugars from having some insulin resistance, which imo needs to be addressed so that we're not getting water retention and carpal tunnel sides without the benefits.
With reta if you're still digesting dinner after 2 hours your blood sugars will still be elevated.
I'm currently working on getting my fasting blood sugars routinely 90 or under before I start gh or gh releasers. for what it's worth I'm still trying to figure alot of peptide information out and I may be off base but hopefully it adds to the discussion
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It’s the GHRH competing with insulin. Insulin blunts the GHRH effectiveness. I have been researching in the morning right when I get up and then don’t eat for 1-2 hours after. Seems to work fine and guarantees you’re fasted. I can’t fast 3 hours before bed.
Edited to be more accurate.
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@mfadden99 And it makes your face warm so you know its working!
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Just finished a test vial of Tesa after running CJC/IPA for 12 weeks. Had 10mg from a friend so decided to run 5 day course of the vial. No flushing like CJC (as mentioned above), but after 3rd day, joints started to hurt a bit and scale up 3-4 pounds from water retention. Wasn't a fan...CJC it is for me.....well....GH, really...
If you're headed somewhere, just go there...
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Just finished a test vial of Tesa after running CJC/IPA for 12 weeks. Had 10mg from a friend so decided to run 5 day course of the vial. No flushing like CJC (as mentioned above), but after 3rd day, joints started to hurt a bit and scale up 3-4 pounds from water retention. Wasn't a fan...CJC it is for me.....well....GH, really...
If you're headed somewhere, just go there...
Just finished a test vial of Tesa after running CJC/IPA for 12 weeks. Had 10mg from a friend so decided to run 5 day course of the vial. No flushing like CJC (as mentioned above), but after 3rd day, joints started to hurt a bit and scale up 3-4 pounds from water retention. Wasn't a fan...CJC it is for me.....well....GH, really...
If you're headed somewhere, just go there...
2mg is way too high of a newbie starter dose. You should have gone 1mg. Also, the water retention and joint issues is a by product of high GH......which means it was working.
If you're so susceptible of side effects from GH that 2mg of Tesa gave you joint pain and water retention within the first week, even something as small as 1iu of HGH is likely going to do the same thing.
What is your baseline igf-1 level that you're going from?
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It’s the GHRH competing with insulin. Insulin blunts the GHRH effectiveness. I have been researching in the morning right when I get up and then don’t eat for 1-2 hours after. Seems to work fine and guarantees you’re fasted. I can’t fast 3 hours before bed.
Edited to be more accurate.
@ResearchCat My dumb question of the morning. Since I typically don't eat in the morning either, I'm leaning towards morning doses when I start my cycle. With that said, i do usually have a protein drink and fiber drink in the morning. While not eating per se, should I delay them for a couple of hours if I decide on the morning protocol? I suspect so, but don't want to overthink it. Thanks for any imput.
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Just finished a test vial of Tesa after running CJC/IPA for 12 weeks. Had 10mg from a friend so decided to run 5 day course of the vial. No flushing like CJC (as mentioned above), but after 3rd day, joints started to hurt a bit and scale up 3-4 pounds from water retention. Wasn't a fan...CJC it is for me.....well....GH, really...
If you're headed somewhere, just go there...
2mg is way too high of a newbie starter dose. You should have gone 1mg. Also, the water retention and joint issues is a by product of high GH......which means it was working.
If you're so susceptible of side effects from GH that 2mg of Tesa gave you joint pain and water retention within the first week, even something as small as 1iu of HGH is likely going to do the same thing.
What is your baseline igf-1 level that you're going from?
@Neil-McCauley Thought process was that I had been running what was considered standard for CJC/IPA for 3 mo prior. IGF-1 at 140.
I plan on starting GH at 1iu
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@ResearchCat My dumb question of the morning. Since I typically don't eat in the morning either, I'm leaning towards morning doses when I start my cycle. With that said, i do usually have a protein drink and fiber drink in the morning. While not eating per se, should I delay them for a couple of hours if I decide on the morning protocol? I suspect so, but don't want to overthink it. Thanks for any imput.
@coondogesq As I understand it, anything that breaks the fast will increase insulin, stunting the GH pulse. It seems generally accepted for either morning or night dose to do on empty stomach and delay eating for 1-2hr.
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@ResearchCat My dumb question of the morning. Since I typically don't eat in the morning either, I'm leaning towards morning doses when I start my cycle. With that said, i do usually have a protein drink and fiber drink in the morning. While not eating per se, should I delay them for a couple of hours if I decide on the morning protocol? I suspect so, but don't want to overthink it. Thanks for any imput.
@coondogesq Yes because as soon as you put any calories in your mouth the fast ends and insulin spikes.
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Agreed with @hunt_ak and @shaqdiesel. I will drink black coffee but no calories for 1-2 hours afterwards. And yeah, it’s usually a protein shake and my creatine/fiber blend. Opinions vary but most people agree somewhere in the 1-2 hours range is fine, since the GH pulse will likely be shorter than that. Some folks (I think Randy has said) using GH or Tesa have said they fast as long as they can, but they are also doing intermittent fasting and weren’t planning to eat anyway.
My challenge - and for many GLP-1 users - is to balance optimal preparation for peptide protocols with the need to onboard macros at target levels. And as stated previously, fasting for 3 hours before bed just isn’t possible for me without falling short of my macros.
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