Enclomiphene sourcing
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I'd strongly suggest looking at HCG as well as enclomiphene. Most hormone docs will prescribe either one and from what I've seen RX prices are lower than online places for enclomiphine (wish that was true for HCG).
Personally I noticed vision changes when my doc prescribed enclomiphene but zero diff in test related blood markers. We switched to HCG and my blood work and my personal feel found HCG to be the better option. For both I waited 1.5 months after starting/stopping to do blood work so they had time to work. I'll see if I can find the video but Alex Tatem (certified urologist) did a good youtube video about it. One of the points that stood out was that about 50% of people metabolize it differently and don't get the good benefits of enclomiphene and just the bad. I unfortunately fell into that camp.
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I'd strongly suggest looking at HCG as well as enclomiphene. Most hormone docs will prescribe either one and from what I've seen RX prices are lower than online places for enclomiphine (wish that was true for HCG).
Personally I noticed vision changes when my doc prescribed enclomiphene but zero diff in test related blood markers. We switched to HCG and my blood work and my personal feel found HCG to be the better option. For both I waited 1.5 months after starting/stopping to do blood work so they had time to work. I'll see if I can find the video but Alex Tatem (certified urologist) did a good youtube video about it. One of the points that stood out was that about 50% of people metabolize it differently and don't get the good benefits of enclomiphene and just the bad. I unfortunately fell into that camp.
@derekg1
You are correct but with some...nuance. Your history makes sense. What you get prescribed can often depend on your goals. Enclo is frequently chosen first due to cost, ease of use, and high probability of success. HCG is more second line for enclo non responders, greater emphasis on sperm parameters (ie low counts), desire for testicular fullness, or as a bridge when coming off enclo. Everyone's situation is different but patient hesitation to injecting something is fairly universal! Alex seems like a good dude though I don't know him personally. I have watched most of his videos and, for the most part, cannot argue with his conclusions. The Sexual Medicine Society of North America, to which he is a member, can be an odd collection varying opinions. -
@derekg1
You are correct but with some...nuance. Your history makes sense. What you get prescribed can often depend on your goals. Enclo is frequently chosen first due to cost, ease of use, and high probability of success. HCG is more second line for enclo non responders, greater emphasis on sperm parameters (ie low counts), desire for testicular fullness, or as a bridge when coming off enclo. Everyone's situation is different but patient hesitation to injecting something is fairly universal! Alex seems like a good dude though I don't know him personally. I have watched most of his videos and, for the most part, cannot argue with his conclusions. The Sexual Medicine Society of North America, to which he is a member, can be an odd collection varying opinions.@derekg1
You are correct but with some...nuance. Your history makes sense. What you get prescribed can often depend on your goals. Enclo is frequently chosen first due to cost, ease of use, and high probability of success. HCG is more second line for enclo non responders, greater emphasis on sperm parameters (ie low counts), desire for testicular fullness, or as a bridge when coming off enclo. Everyone's situation is different but patient hesitation to injecting something is fairly universal! Alex seems like a good dude though I don't know him personally. I have watched most of his videos and, for the most part, cannot argue with his conclusions. The Sexual Medicine Society of North America, to which he is a member, can be an odd collection varying opinions.I agree 100%, just tossing the personal experience out there to help inform the possible decision paths.
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@derekg1
You are correct but with some...nuance. Your history makes sense. What you get prescribed can often depend on your goals. Enclo is frequently chosen first due to cost, ease of use, and high probability of success. HCG is more second line for enclo non responders, greater emphasis on sperm parameters (ie low counts), desire for testicular fullness, or as a bridge when coming off enclo. Everyone's situation is different but patient hesitation to injecting something is fairly universal! Alex seems like a good dude though I don't know him personally. I have watched most of his videos and, for the most part, cannot argue with his conclusions. The Sexual Medicine Society of North America, to which he is a member, can be an odd collection varying opinions.I agree 100%, just tossing the personal experience out there to help inform the possible decision paths.
@derekg1
And we need more of it! Was not in any way a criticism or critique. I just happen to 'work in the space' so added a bit of filler. Personal experiences can lead to greater understanding and when it comes to mens health some struggle to find the courage to bring it up. -
@ursus
Thanks for adding your personal experience! I think many of us get a lot out of it. Part of my exploration for 2026 is about trying to get my biology to perform better at 59yo and to try to do it myself. CJC/Ipa for GH. FLGR to inhibit myostatin. Enclo to boost free T. I could just take GH or Test exogenously, sure. And I might shift gears in 2027, we'll see. I love exploring these topics though. I want to put in the work. And I'm reasonably careful- quarterly labs, dexa's, etc. It's not for everyone though. Now clomid has been around since the year I was born so it's nothing new (as you mentioned 'decades') and is FDA approved and available by prescription. It actually already contains 50%-70% enclomiphene by pharmacopeia. That 30-50% zuclomiphene behaves very differently than the enclomiphene- muuuch longer half life, increased estrogenic effects, and yes, the infamous eye floaters! 503 sources supposedly exclude that 30-50% when processing but then you need an Rx. And in my opinion you still should wonder what you're being sent in the mail. And independent testing is not easy, at least not in the US. Most of the companies performing the needed analytics to determine isomer ratios aren't really open to the common man. So the quest continues. Any chemists or pharmacists in the group? Let's hear it!I think the duration of the clomid/enclomiphene and dosage plays a big part in the side effects.
Most guys would use it clomid for PCT often with tamoxifen and later learning you add HCG for a couple weeks to kick start it. But duration of all this wouldn’t exceed 3 months and often be around 2. Idk old protocol of clomid at 50mg daily is an emotional roller coaster.I do have a working theory about the eye part. In the recent 18 months ago time I tried enclomiphene. Now before starting this I did notice the need for reader more and more. (I’m like 14 years younger than you)I did notice my eyes were more sensitive especially to light. Yearly eye exam retinas checked as usual no issues they could see.
But get this I decide to switch to the “other stuff” (again I don’t know if that’s allowed here) micro dose and all. And within 3 weeks my eyes were improving in the presbyopia. Not something I was even seeking to improve.
What I’ve researched is that the cillary muscles in the eye that focus for you are very sensitive to hormones especially androgens. And what likely happened is the exogenous stuff saturated the cells raising my testosterone and estrogen. It’s not a permanent cure for age related stuff but a welcome benefit for the time being.
I don’t judge anyone what they do. But I do think the taboos of treatment to optimize Testosterone are going away. And its quality of life stuff not just clinically low 200 total stuff anymore.
One word of caution though, even if you go to a clinic or telemedicine the scripts they write will likely end up in your digital chart even if you cash pay. So you’re primary doc and your health insurance will be watching even if they don’t say anything.
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Update for those interested. My quest for proper enclomiphene testing continues. Most labs I have reached out to have either not responded or politely declined. Yesterday I had a video conference with 2 representatives from Eurofins, one of which was a PhD specializing in chiral chemical analysis. No problem he said. Then they sent me an estimate for analysis of 3 samples- $6,700. LOL. Now I get to politely decline. Jano finally responded through their general info email address saying only that their enclomiphene testing package will give me the data I seek. Of course the response began with "Hey dear" which seems a ubiquitous title better served in the gray market. I'm leaning towards this as the cost is only $205 per sample. I anticipate needing to hound them a bit about their method of analysis. I have Kimera, Swiss chems, and another on the way from a reputable 503 compounding pharmacy based in Tx. Thought it'd be fun to add this 3rd sample to see if there is a difference. They emphasize testing of the raws and finished product on their fancy website. I'm also considering attending the first day of this years Sexual Medicine Society meeting in October as they are having two "Hormones and Peptides" lectures- this seems to be a significant acknowledgment in the space. But could also be a 3 hour bash session. Update complete!
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Update for those interested. My quest for proper enclomiphene testing continues. Most labs I have reached out to have either not responded or politely declined. Yesterday I had a video conference with 2 representatives from Eurofins, one of which was a PhD specializing in chiral chemical analysis. No problem he said. Then they sent me an estimate for analysis of 3 samples- $6,700. LOL. Now I get to politely decline. Jano finally responded through their general info email address saying only that their enclomiphene testing package will give me the data I seek. Of course the response began with "Hey dear" which seems a ubiquitous title better served in the gray market. I'm leaning towards this as the cost is only $205 per sample. I anticipate needing to hound them a bit about their method of analysis. I have Kimera, Swiss chems, and another on the way from a reputable 503 compounding pharmacy based in Tx. Thought it'd be fun to add this 3rd sample to see if there is a difference. They emphasize testing of the raws and finished product on their fancy website. I'm also considering attending the first day of this years Sexual Medicine Society meeting in October as they are having two "Hormones and Peptides" lectures- this seems to be a significant acknowledgment in the space. But could also be a 3 hour bash session. Update complete!
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Just googled. There is a ton of people selling it all of a sudden. Honestly getting cheaper too
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Just googled. There is a ton of people selling it all of a sudden. Honestly getting cheaper too
@quicksilver80
Howdy quick. Ordered some (insider baseball on the 'ordered' part) 6.25mg enclofrom Empower Pharmacy today. Price was $90.90 for 90 day supply. Easy math. While on the phone I asked them to connect me with a pharmacist and inquired about the internal testing on this compound. She was very nice and said they are happy to send that information to the prescribing provider. So that will hopefully be in my hands early next week as my 'provider' is always most helpful! It's nice to be the boss sometimes. -
@quicksilver80
Howdy quick. Ordered some (insider baseball on the 'ordered' part) 6.25mg enclofrom Empower Pharmacy today. Price was $90.90 for 90 day supply. Easy math. While on the phone I asked them to connect me with a pharmacist and inquired about the internal testing on this compound. She was very nice and said they are happy to send that information to the prescribing provider. So that will hopefully be in my hands early next week as my 'provider' is always most helpful! It's nice to be the boss sometimes.@Stones67 but thats through a similar to telehealth service? Like your pcp will see it in the notes
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@Stones67 but thats through a similar to telehealth service? Like your pcp will see it in the notes
@quicksilver80
Valid point! But I haven't seen mine since before c-19 and I am surrounded by medical types on a daily basis. I order my own labs, follow my own BP and am fortunate to have access to advice and testing (don't even need him to order the colonoscopy I'm due for next year!). And while he was a likable fellow, I'm less interested in conventional allopathic medicine these days. The topics I'd want to focus on now would be....well...beyond his knowledge base. Not a boast and not trying to ruffle feathers. Seems like a lot of folks on here feel the current system is lacking. -
@quicksilver80
Valid point! But I haven't seen mine since before c-19 and I am surrounded by medical types on a daily basis. I order my own labs, follow my own BP and am fortunate to have access to advice and testing (don't even need him to order the colonoscopy I'm due for next year!). And while he was a likable fellow, I'm less interested in conventional allopathic medicine these days. The topics I'd want to focus on now would be....well...beyond his knowledge base. Not a boast and not trying to ruffle feathers. Seems like a lot of folks on here feel the current system is lacking. -
It really amazes how with every new rabbit hole I go down in this space, i spend more time trying to find the signal buried in the noise, misinformation, bad information, etc.
I find it even more annoying that it looks like most telehealth companies package enclomiphene, tadalafil, and other bullshit into a single pill at way too high a dose(imo.)
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@Stones67 but thats through a similar to telehealth service? Like your pcp will see it in the notes
service
My doctor at the VA saw it. Its a prescription for TRT that had to be written, TRT clinic or not, also saw the prescription of nandrolone. Im not sure if they all do it but it would be the legitimate way of doing it.
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It really amazes how with every new rabbit hole I go down in this space, i spend more time trying to find the signal buried in the noise, misinformation, bad information, etc.
I find it even more annoying that it looks like most telehealth companies package enclomiphene, tadalafil, and other bullshit into a single pill at way too high a dose(imo.)
@ResearchCat yeah i was asking meso about this whole rabbit hole and i feel like its such a niche question noone wanted to mess with it. Like yes these bigger domestic grey market people have coas but it doesnt tell me everything i want. How do i trust any of them? You dont.
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The good news seems to be that I shouldn’t have any trouble getting a script for low dose tadalafil and with insurance it’s a lot cheaper than through telehealth.
Old man yells at cloud: Why are all the NP’s and PA-C’s you have to see before you get to see the urologist/colorectal specialists young women? These are jobs for old ugly people.
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Kimera and umbrella both have it. Stones actually ordered some from kimera. My biggest worry is some people just past clomid for enclo and the side effects of that are more harmful than helpful for guys with secondary hypo. Plus side is its not a permanent choice so coming off will stop the negative sides if i read correctly.
Kimera and umbrella both have it. Stones actually ordered some from kimera. My biggest worry is some people just past clomid for enclo and the side effects of that are more harmful than helpful for guys with secondary hypo. Plus side is it’s not a permanent choice so coming off will stop the negative sides if i read correctly.
It’s funny; I finally got done with some tests and other nonsense and my urologist gave me the prescription for enclomiphene. I was pretty happy until I saw that they actually wrote it for Clomid and at a different dose than I asked for.
I sent them a polite message telling them they could fuck right off and that I would source it elsewhere.
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Update for those interested. My quest for proper enclomiphene testing continues. Most labs I have reached out to have either not responded or politely declined. Yesterday I had a video conference with 2 representatives from Eurofins, one of which was a PhD specializing in chiral chemical analysis. No problem he said. Then they sent me an estimate for analysis of 3 samples- $6,700. LOL. Now I get to politely decline. Jano finally responded through their general info email address saying only that their enclomiphene testing package will give me the data I seek. Of course the response began with "Hey dear" which seems a ubiquitous title better served in the gray market. I'm leaning towards this as the cost is only $205 per sample. I anticipate needing to hound them a bit about their method of analysis. I have Kimera, Swiss chems, and another on the way from a reputable 503 compounding pharmacy based in Tx. Thought it'd be fun to add this 3rd sample to see if there is a difference. They emphasize testing of the raws and finished product on their fancy website. I'm also considering attending the first day of this years Sexual Medicine Society meeting in October as they are having two "Hormones and Peptides" lectures- this seems to be a significant acknowledgment in the space. But could also be a 3 hour bash session. Update complete!
@Stones67 What I am finding that is interesting is that my urologist prescribed me Clomid when I asked for enclomipheme - I guess you could quibble about that - but the men’s health vendor, which is using yet a different compounding pharmacy (everyone gets a cut) lists enclomipheme and Clomid as two separate products on their web site. So clearly, someone in the industry recognizes that they are two separate products - even if my doctor - former doctor, sorry - won’t prescribe one of them.
Oh, and their list prices are identical for both.
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@Stones67 What I am finding that is interesting is that my urologist prescribed me Clomid when I asked for enclomipheme - I guess you could quibble about that - but the men’s health vendor, which is using yet a different compounding pharmacy (everyone gets a cut) lists enclomipheme and Clomid as two separate products on their web site. So clearly, someone in the industry recognizes that they are two separate products - even if my doctor - former doctor, sorry - won’t prescribe one of them.
Oh, and their list prices are identical for both.
@ResearchCat
They are different compounds! And I have some good news. I sent "Enclomiphene" samples to Vanguard including the 12.5mg offering from Swiss Chems, 6.25mg from Kimera,, and 6.25 mg from Empower Pharmacy (503). I asked them to list the Zuclomiphene isomer as a contaminant. I recieved the results Thursday evening. Long story short, all three had essentially zero Zuc. I will get around to redacting personal info from the COA's and posting in this thread at some point this weekend- cuz I know you dudes like receipts!
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