Non-sketchy alternative to Hospira bac water (in glass vials)?
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I know Hospira is considered the gold standard for bacteriostatic water, but I'm not a fan of their plastic vials, and in light of all the recent faux-scarcity and price-gouging by Hospira resellers, I felt now might be a good time to compare other options. My goal was to find a brand that 1. packages their reconstitution solution in borosilicate glass instead of plastic, 2. has published testing results available, showing consistently high quality and purity, and 3. manufactures their products in Europe or the USA, rather than in China. Bonus points if they have a seemingly-good reputation online, and lots of positive reviews from fellow researchers, although obviously the latter can be faked or manipulated. The water I eventually selected is made by Parrox, and runs about $5.25 a vial when purchased in quantity with a discount code and free shipping. If you're in Chicago and would like to go in with me on a large-ish order, let me know! If you're not in Chicago, but have been on a similar hunt for Hospira alternatives, maybe check them out for yourself. Shelf life on the vials appears to be 3 years from date of manufacture.
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I know Hospira is considered the gold standard for bacteriostatic water, but I'm not a fan of their plastic vials, and in light of all the recent faux-scarcity and price-gouging by Hospira resellers, I felt now might be a good time to compare other options. My goal was to find a brand that 1. packages their reconstitution solution in borosilicate glass instead of plastic, 2. has published testing results available, showing consistently high quality and purity, and 3. manufactures their products in Europe or the USA, rather than in China. Bonus points if they have a seemingly-good reputation online, and lots of positive reviews from fellow researchers, although obviously the latter can be faked or manipulated. The water I eventually selected is made by Parrox, and runs about $5.25 a vial when purchased in quantity with a discount code and free shipping. If you're in Chicago and would like to go in with me on a large-ish order, let me know! If you're not in Chicago, but have been on a similar hunt for Hospira alternatives, maybe check them out for yourself. Shelf life on the vials appears to be 3 years from date of manufacture.
has published testing results available, showing consistently high quality and purity
Can you actually verify those COAs are authentic and run on every batch? If you've been here long enough, you know the same trust and authenticity issues exist with peptide vendors too — that's exactly why community forums and independent customer testing exist.
Without enough of that crowdsourced evidence for Parrox specifically, it's still a gamble.
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Paroxx, in past tests, was found with a ph that’s in the upper range, or even out of the recommended range. This could be a problem properly dissolving some compounds. Acetic acid will fix this, but seems to be more work. They might have resolved the issue, but I have no info on that.
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Paroxx, in past tests, was found with a ph that’s in the upper range, or even out of the recommended range. This could be a problem properly dissolving some compounds. Acetic acid will fix this, but seems to be more work. They might have resolved the issue, but I have no info on that.
@Snake-Pepskin Thanks for that heads up! The most recent results I saw were from tests done in April by Light Labs. PH range was supposed to be between 5 and 7 and Parrox tested right at 7, so technically a pass, but on the upper edge as you noted. I remember seeing good scores for Lamda, and another brand, Quality Research Chemicals, which I ordered through Amazon last autumn, but now I can't find the test page where they compared them.
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Yeah, they are all over the place. I personally use Hospira, but I would consider Lambda for the next reload.
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We have all been brain washed on Hospira. It’s nothing but sterile water and benzyl alcohol. They aren’t making holy water. I know plenty of people who use Lamda, parrot, glacier aminos and they are all fine. If you are worried about the PH order some test strips and check a bottle yourself.
Some videos on YouTube convinced everyone Hospira is the holy grail and they have some secret potion. Nonsense. There is competition now and that’s a good thing people need to keep an open mind. @randy this would be a great video test the competition against Hospira.
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Hmm, this is interesting; apparently, being exposed to air causes bacteriostatic water to rapidly absorb carbon dioxide, which creates carbonic acid, lowering the water's PH. With these being multi-use vials, there will be several syringe punctures into the water bottle over the course of its use, usually with a bit of air introduced each time to equalize pressure and allow drawing the contents, and the reconstituted peptides will also be exposed to air, during preparation, and again whenever syringes are filled for dosing. If it's going to gradually drop in PH over time, maybe using bac water that starts out on the higher end of "normal" would actually provide a helpful cushion...?
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@Snake-Pepskin Thanks for that heads up! The most recent results I saw were from tests done in April by Light Labs. PH range was supposed to be between 5 and 7 and Parrox tested right at 7, so technically a pass, but on the upper edge as you noted. I remember seeing good scores for Lamda, and another brand, Quality Research Chemicals, which I ordered through Amazon last autumn, but now I can't find the test page where they compared them.
@theexquisitehour I would stay away from any water that tests so high on pH. I got some cell research lab grade sterile water for my own Ghetto BAC expt and even that tested right between 5-6 on pH strips.
If the pH is coming out so high they are not using proper nonpyrogenic autoclaved sterile water as the base. Most likely they are using distilled or deionized water and adding benzyl alcohol to it.
Did their COAs come with endotoxin and sterility results?
Either way, better to stay away. If you want to save money, get cell culture lab grade sterile water (easily available), add 10 units of BA to every 10ml of water, and filter for more peace of mind.
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@theexquisitehour I would stay away from any water that tests so high on pH. I got some cell research lab grade sterile water for my own Ghetto BAC expt and even that tested right between 5-6 on pH strips.
If the pH is coming out so high they are not using proper nonpyrogenic autoclaved sterile water as the base. Most likely they are using distilled or deionized water and adding benzyl alcohol to it.
Did their COAs come with endotoxin and sterility results?
Either way, better to stay away. If you want to save money, get cell culture lab grade sterile water (easily available), add 10 units of BA to every 10ml of water, and filter for more peace of mind.
@pep_researcher I know a couple of people making their own. I haven’t really gotten into it. I may though it’s such a simple thing. The whole Hospira stuff is ludicrous. The scarcity tactic to drive up prices led to competition. Now the tactic is make the competition look bad. Who even knows where that test comes from and what the motivation is. I bet there are all fine. You can easily test TDS and PH yourself. If in fact the PH is high like you said it’s not sterile water and likely distilled.
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I’ve got my own views on paying $800-$1000 per litre for essentially fancy water especially when generally the Pep community really push only 1X brand as being up to scratch- as well as here in Australia it really not being as dominant or readily available.
A lot of us (myself included) use https://premiumsupps.net/products/bacteriostatic-water-30ml?variant=49519477031192 and I have never even heard of anyone having problems with it.
Even just holding a vial of it you get a feel of the quality of the amber glass vials etc etc (I’m sounding like a flicking ad now
) but yeh for people down here I’d highly recommend them and especially when buying it in their “bundles” is a shit ton cheaper than Chinese made Hospira.
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We have all been brain washed on Hospira. It’s nothing but sterile water and benzyl alcohol. They aren’t making holy water. I know plenty of people who use Lamda, parrot, glacier aminos and they are all fine. If you are worried about the PH order some test strips and check a bottle yourself.
Some videos on YouTube convinced everyone Hospira is the holy grail and they have some secret potion. Nonsense. There is competition now and that’s a good thing people need to keep an open mind. @randy this would be a great video test the competition against Hospira.
@Stevepep it comes down to risk tolerance. Hospira wont give you issues. Other off brand water might. Its unregulated. A lot of times PH is off, benzyl alcohol content is off, something is living in it or there's high endo numbers. Half the time someone has issues with foggy or clumpy peptides its the water.
I have lost count of the times someone's rat has had a reaction to something and I say "just do 10iu of the water and see what happens" and they get the same reaction.
"but my friend jerry uses uncle wangs toilet water with no problem! Hospira is a scam!" That's great. I'm glad it works for them. If you go outside of Hospira you need to get it tested. If you don't your risk tolerance is different than mine.
I am friendly with a few of the owners of the companies you buy from and they sell water... Every single one still gets Hospira for themselves.
"If it doesnt come in a needle. It doesn't work"
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I’ve got my own views on paying $800-$1000 per litre for essentially fancy water especially when generally the Pep community really push only 1X brand as being up to scratch- as well as here in Australia it really not being as dominant or readily available.
A lot of us (myself included) use https://premiumsupps.net/products/bacteriostatic-water-30ml?variant=49519477031192 and I have never even heard of anyone having problems with it.
Even just holding a vial of it you get a feel of the quality of the amber glass vials etc etc (I’m sounding like a flicking ad now) but yeh for people down here I’d highly recommend them and especially when buying it in their “bundles” is a shit ton cheaper than Chinese made Hospira.
@STATIEEIGHT I dont like how far apart the tests are from eachother. But if its working for you thats great!
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@Stevepep it comes down to risk tolerance. Hospira wont give you issues. Other off brand water might. Its unregulated. A lot of times PH is off, benzyl alcohol content is off, something is living in it or there's high endo numbers. Half the time someone has issues with foggy or clumpy peptides its the water.
I have lost count of the times someone's rat has had a reaction to something and I say "just do 10iu of the water and see what happens" and they get the same reaction.
"but my friend jerry uses uncle wangs toilet water with no problem! Hospira is a scam!" That's great. I'm glad it works for them. If you go outside of Hospira you need to get it tested. If you don't your risk tolerance is different than mine.
I am friendly with a few of the owners of the companies you buy from and they sell water... Every single one still gets Hospira for themselves.
@Randy I have access to Hospira for less than the other brands, so I use it. When I first started, I was given what you refer to as Chinese toilet water and had no issues. I got lucky for sure and would never do that again. This whole industry is unregulated. I get that Hospira is the safest bet, and I agree as long as you use it by the expiration date or within a couple of months of it, that is your safest bet. Hoarding it and thinking you have three years' worth is far too big a risk for me.
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Given the money we spend on research peptides for our rats, I don’t think $15 for back water is what’s gonna break the bank. Yes, hoarding it is silly for many reasons, mainly because people dry up supply which drives the price up. And they will end up using expired Hospira at some point. That said I would trust expired Hospira over fresh untested off brand, but that’s just me. They’ve been making injections supplies way before peptides became popular .
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I know Hospira is considered the gold standard for bacteriostatic water, but I'm not a fan of their plastic vials, and in light of all the recent faux-scarcity and price-gouging by Hospira resellers, I felt now might be a good time to compare other options. My goal was to find a brand that 1. packages their reconstitution solution in borosilicate glass instead of plastic, 2. has published testing results available, showing consistently high quality and purity, and 3. manufactures their products in Europe or the USA, rather than in China. Bonus points if they have a seemingly-good reputation online, and lots of positive reviews from fellow researchers, although obviously the latter can be faked or manipulated. The water I eventually selected is made by Parrox, and runs about $5.25 a vial when purchased in quantity with a discount code and free shipping. If you're in Chicago and would like to go in with me on a large-ish order, let me know! If you're not in Chicago, but have been on a similar hunt for Hospira alternatives, maybe check them out for yourself. Shelf life on the vials appears to be 3 years from date of manufacture.
Pfizer uses a custom Olefin vial that, unlike other polymers (or borosilicate glass) doesn't leach chemicals or change the PH of the water over time. PH is the most important factor for keeping reconstituted peptides stable.
COP=Olefin Polymer
"The semi-rigid vial is fabricated from a specially formulated polyolefin. It is a copolymer of ethylene and propylene. The safety of the plastic has been confirmed by tests in animals according to USP biological standards for plastic containers. The container requires no vapor barrier to maintain the proper labeled volume."
*copy and pasted from another forum
not sure how to attach photos on mobile but was reading this with a chart attached showing pH rising w glass on a 6month timeline while the COP maintained its pH -
@STATIEEIGHT I dont like how far apart the tests are from eachother. But if its working for you thats great!
Randy
Yeh - let’s just say this company is not on the same level as a Pfizor - they might only do 1X batch a year? - I really don’t know (they are over 1000K’s from me in another state and I just get shit delivered.
The fact that anyone down here did any sort of testing (especially endotoxins) on BAC water at all surprised me to tell the truth
.Most of the rest of the shit I see here is fake hospira off Amazon or rebranded Chinese stuff with a sticker on it.
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