The Full Stack [Everything That Has to Be Right Before Your Peptides Work]
-
Most guys here already know peptides. What trips people up is everything else.
You can run the best BPC-157 protocol on earth and get nothing out of it if you're sleeping five hours, eating 1,200 calories, and walking around with a ferritin of 20. Peptides don't work in isolation. They work on top of a foundation. If the foundation isn't there, you're paying for compounds that have nothing to act on.
This thread is about the foundation.
What we cover here:
- Hormones — TRT, thyroid, GH, insulin, and how they interact
- Nutrition — calories, macros, meal timing
- Micronutrients — iron/ferritin, magnesium, zinc, B12, D
- Strength training — programming, recovery, what actually drives progress
- Sleep and recovery — HRV, RHR, wearables, and how to read them
- How to test a variable properly so you know what's actually working
Ground rules:
- Post the full picture — dose, timing, diet, sleep, training. A dose with no context can't be answered.
- Bring data if you have it. Labs, wearable numbers, bodyweight trend. Guesses get guesses back.
- Change one thing at a time. If you change three, you learned nothing.
- Nothing here replaces your doctor.
Post your question below.
-
I retired four years ago. We moved to Florida because a company was pushing hard to recruit my wife and my job was no longer holding us in place. I looked forward to beaches, diving, fishing and all that fun stuff, but also became primary caregiver for my 90 year old mother in law who has advanced dementia and is entirely reliant on others.
This means retirement was never being away from the house for more than three hours during the day when I have someone coming in to help. I kept getting fatter and more depressed.
I was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic about three years ago. My doc had me on Farxiga and Metformin, and suggested I ultimately would end up on insulin for the rest of my life. I had already been on statins for more than a decade but she added an additional cholesterol medication. I felt terrible, which I attributed to the drugs.
Rather than succumb to that grim view of my future, sitting on my ass, eating cookies and resenting my lot in life, I decided to make changes that could fit inside my circumstances.
I started a keto /carnivore diet, then added walking around my neighborhood. I took myself off all of my meds (except testosterone) and lost a ton of weight. Last June, I joined a gym and have been went training ever since. I also started concentrating on getting good sleep. Not always possible, given this environment, but getting an average of seven and a half hours. If I didn’t have to go pee every couple of hours, it would probably be better. I’ve also been supplementing like a madman. Creatine, magnesium, potassium are the big ones, but there are a ton more.
I didn’t know what I was doing in the gym, but I still was able to consistently add weight. I may have gone too fast, and stressed out my elbow tendons on both sides. This has slowed things down.
I just decided I needed a plan, rather than adjust weight, reps and sets based on how I felt in the moment. I think I have a better idea of progressive overload now and am redesigning my routines accordingly. I use the Hevy app to record workouts, which has been amazing.
I have hit my two initial goals, reaching 150 lbs and a body fat of 15%. Now I want to pile on some muscle. My sticking point right now is that I don’t have much energy in the gym. My guess is this may be diet-related, but struggle with the idea of upping carbs or calories. Maintenance calories for me appear to be very low, I.e. approximately 1500 on gym days. At 6ft and 150 lbs, that seems really low. My fasting glucose is usually around 80 each morning and my last A1c was 5.1. Carbs send it way up and calories add weight which my scale attributes to fat.
Sorry for the novel. I guess my question is how do I get more energy in the gym?
-
Under eating=no energy. If you want to go through a building phase you have to eat more. Don't struggle with it. Make a plan and execute. Eat more. Lift heavy. You would be surprised how many more calories a day you can add. You should be cycling. After a long cut you want to refeed. Set a high protein goal. Minimal fat the rest carbs. For me that's vegetables, fruit, rice and potatoes. If you time your carbs around your workouts you will burn most of it anyway. You got this.
Mots -C helps too. Lol
-
Under eating=no energy. If you want to go through a building phase you have to eat more. Don't struggle with it. Make a plan and execute. Eat more. Lift heavy. You would be surprised how many more calories a day you can add. You should be cycling. After a long cut you want to refeed. Set a high protein goal. Minimal fat the rest carbs. For me that's vegetables, fruit, rice and potatoes. If you time your carbs around your workouts you will burn most of it anyway. You got this.
Mots -C helps too. Lol
@Mydogdaryl423 I hear this all the time, but it doesn't take diabetes or insulin resistance into account, as @spaceghost and I are dealing with.
@spaceghost - have you had a fasting insulin check done? That will be much more valuable than fasting glucose.
With high insulin numbers, your growth factor is severely reduced and will make building muscle very difficult.
I start tomorrow on MOTS-C on my path to reducing my IR. You may look into that as a way to help with your glucose issues.
-
@mydogdaryl423, I’ve been hammering protein, typically 150-200 grams per day. Next, I have targeting under 10 grams of carbs per day, but don’t stress if it is double that. I haven’t been avoiding fat but neither am I intentionally adding it anymore.
@jtcjeff, I’m getting drawn tomorrow morning and the tests will include both fasting insulin and igf. I don’t think I’ve ever had either of those tests before.
You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.
-
@mydogdaryl423, I’ve been hammering protein, typically 150-200 grams per day. Next, I have targeting under 10 grams of carbs per day, but don’t stress if it is double that. I haven’t been avoiding fat but neither am I intentionally adding it anymore.
@jtcjeff, I’m getting drawn tomorrow morning and the tests will include both fasting insulin and igf. I don’t think I’ve ever had either of those tests before.
@mydogdaryl423, I’ve been hammering protein, typically 150-200 grams per day. Next, I have targeting under 10 grams of carbs per day, but don’t stress if it is double that. I haven’t been avoiding fat but neither am I intentionally adding it anymore.
@jtcjeff, I’m getting drawn tomorrow morning and the tests will include both fasting insulin and igf. I don’t think I’ve ever had either of those tests before.
10 grams?
-
@mydogdaryl423, I’ve been hammering protein, typically 150-200 grams per day. Next, I have targeting under 10 grams of carbs per day, but don’t stress if it is double that. I haven’t been avoiding fat but neither am I intentionally adding it anymore.
@jtcjeff, I’m getting drawn tomorrow morning and the tests will include both fasting insulin and igf. I don’t think I’ve ever had either of those tests before.
@SpaceGhost 
What a lot of non diabetics (and a lot of diabetics and even Endos unfortunately) can’t get their heads around is that a healthy diet for a non diabetic IS NOT a healthy diabetic carbs/grains/rice etc are just a no - fuck that net carb shit - it’s bullshit.
Trick is that to replace carbs with fats - otherwise you’ll end up with no energy etc like you are.This chick & this speech in particular changed my thinking on it entirely using it and a bit of a mix of a kero/carnivore Issa top diet along with a little bit of help from my best friend Reta - I was discharged a few months back as no longer diabetic (which is sorta bullshit but that’s another story) and my A1c is in the high 4’s nowadays.
That’s off all prescription meds entirely but still on the “non prescription”
ones.The endos requested retesting on bloods because they didn’t believe they were accurate especially when I told them I had gone off all their meds.
But even you - 5.1 is pretty awesome for a T2
-
@mydogdaryl423 , Yes. Pretty much just the trace carbs in protein shakes and my sugar-free coffee creamer. Recently, I’ve tried adding a few carbs before going to the gym. Maybe a pb&j with Dave’s good seed bread, organic peanut butter and no-sugar-added jam. 49 carbs, 55 fat & 32 protein. Didn’t notice anything.
-
I thought that had to be a mistake. With all respect to @jtcjeff I would love to see you get these macros in order and see what you think about your energy in the gym.
-
@mydogdaryl423 , Yes. Pretty much just the trace carbs in protein shakes and my sugar-free coffee creamer. Recently, I’ve tried adding a few carbs before going to the gym. Maybe a pb&j with Dave’s good seed bread, organic peanut butter and no-sugar-added jam. 49 carbs, 55 fat & 32 protein. Didn’t notice anything.
@SpaceGhost
What you’ll notice (and you have to test sugars at OCD levels or have a CGM) is that once you really have it under control- a lot of things that used to spike you either won’t at all anymore or even if they do - not by anywhere near as much. -
I retired four years ago. We moved to Florida because a company was pushing hard to recruit my wife and my job was no longer holding us in place. I looked forward to beaches, diving, fishing and all that fun stuff, but also became primary caregiver for my 90 year old mother in law who has advanced dementia and is entirely reliant on others.
This means retirement was never being away from the house for more than three hours during the day when I have someone coming in to help. I kept getting fatter and more depressed.
I was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic about three years ago. My doc had me on Farxiga and Metformin, and suggested I ultimately would end up on insulin for the rest of my life. I had already been on statins for more than a decade but she added an additional cholesterol medication. I felt terrible, which I attributed to the drugs.
Rather than succumb to that grim view of my future, sitting on my ass, eating cookies and resenting my lot in life, I decided to make changes that could fit inside my circumstances.
I started a keto /carnivore diet, then added walking around my neighborhood. I took myself off all of my meds (except testosterone) and lost a ton of weight. Last June, I joined a gym and have been went training ever since. I also started concentrating on getting good sleep. Not always possible, given this environment, but getting an average of seven and a half hours. If I didn’t have to go pee every couple of hours, it would probably be better. I’ve also been supplementing like a madman. Creatine, magnesium, potassium are the big ones, but there are a ton more.
I didn’t know what I was doing in the gym, but I still was able to consistently add weight. I may have gone too fast, and stressed out my elbow tendons on both sides. This has slowed things down.
I just decided I needed a plan, rather than adjust weight, reps and sets based on how I felt in the moment. I think I have a better idea of progressive overload now and am redesigning my routines accordingly. I use the Hevy app to record workouts, which has been amazing.
I have hit my two initial goals, reaching 150 lbs and a body fat of 15%. Now I want to pile on some muscle. My sticking point right now is that I don’t have much energy in the gym. My guess is this may be diet-related, but struggle with the idea of upping carbs or calories. Maintenance calories for me appear to be very low, I.e. approximately 1500 on gym days. At 6ft and 150 lbs, that seems really low. My fasting glucose is usually around 80 each morning and my last A1c was 5.1. Carbs send it way up and calories add weight which my scale attributes to fat.
Sorry for the novel. I guess my question is how do I get more energy in the gym?
@SpaceGhost so i will call you neighbor. Lol. I live in Miami and love it.
Man your story is very similar to mine….
Yes if your 100lbs over weight and you want to loose bidy fat fast, go to 1600 calories and a GLP.
However thats not sustainable longterm only short term.
The trick is to train your body to eat more food and burn more calories, and thats what i did all summer and actually gained 10lbs of muscle and still lost 1.5lbs of fat.
I went from 1600c to 2850, not in one go but in progression.
Once you reset you new maintenance you cut some calories and give more output, and thats what i prefer to cut and be more sustainable.
Eat more food, give more output, that can be steps, cardio or gym.
Glad you joined this thread so we can help each other in this journey.
-
I retired four years ago. We moved to Florida because a company was pushing hard to recruit my wife and my job was no longer holding us in place. I looked forward to beaches, diving, fishing and all that fun stuff, but also became primary caregiver for my 90 year old mother in law who has advanced dementia and is entirely reliant on others.
This means retirement was never being away from the house for more than three hours during the day when I have someone coming in to help. I kept getting fatter and more depressed.
I was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetic about three years ago. My doc had me on Farxiga and Metformin, and suggested I ultimately would end up on insulin for the rest of my life. I had already been on statins for more than a decade but she added an additional cholesterol medication. I felt terrible, which I attributed to the drugs.
Rather than succumb to that grim view of my future, sitting on my ass, eating cookies and resenting my lot in life, I decided to make changes that could fit inside my circumstances.
I started a keto /carnivore diet, then added walking around my neighborhood. I took myself off all of my meds (except testosterone) and lost a ton of weight. Last June, I joined a gym and have been went training ever since. I also started concentrating on getting good sleep. Not always possible, given this environment, but getting an average of seven and a half hours. If I didn’t have to go pee every couple of hours, it would probably be better. I’ve also been supplementing like a madman. Creatine, magnesium, potassium are the big ones, but there are a ton more.
I didn’t know what I was doing in the gym, but I still was able to consistently add weight. I may have gone too fast, and stressed out my elbow tendons on both sides. This has slowed things down.
I just decided I needed a plan, rather than adjust weight, reps and sets based on how I felt in the moment. I think I have a better idea of progressive overload now and am redesigning my routines accordingly. I use the Hevy app to record workouts, which has been amazing.
I have hit my two initial goals, reaching 150 lbs and a body fat of 15%. Now I want to pile on some muscle. My sticking point right now is that I don’t have much energy in the gym. My guess is this may be diet-related, but struggle with the idea of upping carbs or calories. Maintenance calories for me appear to be very low, I.e. approximately 1500 on gym days. At 6ft and 150 lbs, that seems really low. My fasting glucose is usually around 80 each morning and my last A1c was 5.1. Carbs send it way up and calories add weight which my scale attributes to fat.
Sorry for the novel. I guess my question is how do I get more energy in the gym?
Alright how do we get more energy in the gym and what workout split and routine worked for me.
So i had the same problem….
Skinny fat… I lost the weight and now i want muscle.
So couple things is gym timing… early morning first day or afternoon night….
This makes a difference and needs a different approach.
So i did the afternoon workout, i never noticed because im not those type of complainers or make excuses, i thought it was normal. By the time i got to the gym i had 10k steps in, a fulls day work and you can say the battery was 1/4 way full.
On a trip i had in Virginia, changed my whole workout because my wife had a tour in the afternoon.
So morning workouts for me.
Wake up, drink electrolytes, get morning light 10m and get ready for the gym.
In my macros i have 1cup of fairlife milk, i mix 1/2 scoop grass fed protein powder, 2 shots of cuban coffee, and a drizzle of honey.
Then 1 banana, 2 dates with some more honey, yes all within my macros.
I let that settle a bit and then i do NO tabs, L-citruline or non stim preworkout, Metheyline blue gummy, and L-Carderine.
Nothing that accelerates my heart just caffeine if your good with it.
In the car I take 2oz of Beetjuice i buy in the farmers market and hatch down the NO tabs.
Now the pump is insane, gives you strength to push more and you have the energy of a hunter looking to take down a lion.
If you have a latter workout then I can help you structure your carbs for that pre workout.
-
Alright how do we get more energy in the gym and what workout split and routine worked for me.
So i had the same problem….
Skinny fat… I lost the weight and now i want muscle.
So couple things is gym timing… early morning first day or afternoon night….
This makes a difference and needs a different approach.
So i did the afternoon workout, i never noticed because im not those type of complainers or make excuses, i thought it was normal. By the time i got to the gym i had 10k steps in, a fulls day work and you can say the battery was 1/4 way full.
On a trip i had in Virginia, changed my whole workout because my wife had a tour in the afternoon.
So morning workouts for me.
Wake up, drink electrolytes, get morning light 10m and get ready for the gym.
In my macros i have 1cup of fairlife milk, i mix 1/2 scoop grass fed protein powder, 2 shots of cuban coffee, and a drizzle of honey.
Then 1 banana, 2 dates with some more honey, yes all within my macros.
I let that settle a bit and then i do NO tabs, L-citruline or non stim preworkout, Metheyline blue gummy, and L-Carderine.
Nothing that accelerates my heart just caffeine if your good with it.
In the car I take 2oz of Beetjuice i buy in the farmers market and hatch down the NO tabs.
Now the pump is insane, gives you strength to push more and you have the energy of a hunter looking to take down a lion.
If you have a latter workout then I can help you structure your carbs for that pre workout.
Ok as for the gym split and type of workout…
I do a 4x split. But I started on a 3x full body split, but if yoi want to see muscle gain then a 4x split is what worked for me. I will post my 16 week so you see the difference in muscles.
The work out routine is
Push- Chest , Triceps
Pull- Back, Biceps, Shoulders
Lower- Legs, Abs
Full Upper-The method is Progressive Overload with Reverse Pyramid.
I will post on how i do it..
-
Above was my experience also. Lost 100 pounds was down to 1200 to 1600 calories. Over last winter went off GLP at the same time of a hard training block. Went up to 3200. Which was too much. Settled at 2850. Used the extra calories to put on a bunch of muscle. This spring to cut I went down in phases. Never had to go below 2200. Lost 30 pounds.
-
Under eating=no energy. If you want to go through a building phase you have to eat more. Don't struggle with it. Make a plan and execute. Eat more. Lift heavy. You would be surprised how many more calories a day you can add. You should be cycling. After a long cut you want to refeed. Set a high protein goal. Minimal fat the rest carbs. For me that's vegetables, fruit, rice and potatoes. If you time your carbs around your workouts you will burn most of it anyway. You got this.
Mots -C helps too. Lol
@Mydogdaryl423 Thats exactly it.
You cant go from 30% BF to 8% on a big cut and expect to gain lots of muscle.
Yes you can recomp but you need a reverse and that’s exactly what I was on all summer, break, recomp, raising calories, getting everything in the green. Sleep, Recovery and calories up.
At that point you can gain muscle and not really be im a lean bulk your just filling in your muscles again.
Calories will give you energy and having the energy, gives you the strength to push more, giving the muscles mechanical tension and then it grows.
If you dont push hard the muscles wont grow, just maintain.
-
Under eating=no energy. If you want to go through a building phase you have to eat more. Don't struggle with it. Make a plan and execute. Eat more. Lift heavy. You would be surprised how many more calories a day you can add. You should be cycling. After a long cut you want to refeed. Set a high protein goal. Minimal fat the rest carbs. For me that's vegetables, fruit, rice and potatoes. If you time your carbs around your workouts you will burn most of it anyway. You got this.
Mots -C helps too. Lol
@Mydogdaryl423 MotsC is a workhorse.
The way i do it might seem weird but i do what works for me and to what I tested.
So i did my SS-31 protocol in the Peptide Critic thread, the whole 1gram.
What i do now is 10mg of MotsC and 10mg of Ss-31 per week split in 3x a week
Here comes the crazy part.
I do my SS-31 on my Gym Days- Im repairing the mitochondria.
On my off gym days I do cardio or walk I do my Mots-C ATP energy, not muscle building.
-
@SpaceGhost
What you’ll notice (and you have to test sugars at OCD levels or have a CGM) is that once you really have it under control- a lot of things that used to spike you either won’t at all anymore or even if they do - not by anywhere near as much.@STATIEEIGHT I controlled my insulin with digestive walks, thats your best friend.
10-15m after every meal and check your CGM and see what it does
-
@SpaceGhost
What you’ll notice (and you have to test sugars at OCD levels or have a CGM) is that once you really have it under control- a lot of things that used to spike you either won’t at all anymore or even if they do - not by anywhere near as much.@STATIEEIGHT I use a cgm.
@diegoc I noticed that while my blood sugar goes down during a walk, it tends to creep up towards where it was pre-walk.
-
@SpaceGhost 
What a lot of non diabetics (and a lot of diabetics and even Endos unfortunately) can’t get their heads around is that a healthy diet for a non diabetic IS NOT a healthy diabetic carbs/grains/rice etc are just a no - fuck that net carb shit - it’s bullshit.
Trick is that to replace carbs with fats - otherwise you’ll end up with no energy etc like you are.This chick & this speech in particular changed my thinking on it entirely using it and a bit of a mix of a kero/carnivore Issa top diet along with a little bit of help from my best friend Reta - I was discharged a few months back as no longer diabetic (which is sorta bullshit but that’s another story) and my A1c is in the high 4’s nowadays.
That’s off all prescription meds entirely but still on the “non prescription” ones.The endos requested retesting on bloods because they didn’t believe they were accurate especially when I told them I had gone off all their meds.
But even you - 5.1 is pretty awesome for a T2
STATIEEIGHT Good video. Still, nobody in the keto/carnivore space seems to have an answer for upping energy.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login