Freedom Again
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The question is that freedom’s turnaround time is too quick. Every lab is terribly busy, there is no way they are still doing that much work snd doing it right…
@Commander also if it was a one off it would be easier to believe but they are consistently bad
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@Commander also if it was a one off it would be easier to believe but they are consistently bad
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I'll probably regret this, but let's play a little devil's advocate.
You are under the assumption that Jano is the gold standard and never makes mistakes. How do we know with 100% certainty that Jano isn't the one who is wrong and Freedom isn't the lab that is correct? Not taking into consideration past history or COA's. Just looking at the two in front of us.
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I think it's possible that both labs are correct.
possibilities are that the whole batch is not sterile, some of the batch is sterile, or all of it is sterile. Saw in a video that Jano mentioned this, and in my experience makes sense.Used to work as a QA analyst for a major drug manufacturing firm. Working and processing the samples from the lophilizing fill wasn't fun. 3 pairs booties, 2 pairs bunny suits, 2 pair head doilies, mask, and space suit hemet with filter. Like working in a plastic bag.
Watched a video online where a Chinese firm was doing fill. Nice equipment, gowns, then the camera moved a bit and yikes! there was someone in shorts :
I filter. No way without it.
@senex_mus Exactly this
Just because one bottle passes sterility doesn't mean the whole batch will. Just because one fails doesn't mean every bottle is contaminated.
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@senex_mus Exactly this
Just because one bottle passes sterility doesn't mean the whole batch will. Just because one fails doesn't mean every bottle is contaminated.
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I'll probably regret this, but let's play a little devil's advocate.
You are under the assumption that Jano is the gold standard and never makes mistakes. How do we know with 100% certainty that Jano isn't the one who is wrong and Freedom isn't the lab that is correct? Not taking into consideration past history or COA's. Just looking at the two in front of us.
@Nuncles I think you always have to look at the history unless something changed to fix some obvious issues. Janoshik isn’t perfect but they have the reference standards unlike many other labs and have been the most reliable. They certainly can be wrong but if you asked me to bet the house on who got it right I am saying Janoshik. Let’s hear who you got?
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I'll probably regret this, but let's play a little devil's advocate.
You are under the assumption that Jano is the gold standard and never makes mistakes. How do we know with 100% certainty that Jano isn't the one who is wrong and Freedom isn't the lab that is correct? Not taking into consideration past history or COA's. Just looking at the two in front of us.
I'll probably regret this, but let's play a little devil's advocate.
You are under the assumption that Jano is the gold standard and never makes mistakes. How do we know with 100% certainty that Jano isn't the one who is wrong and Freedom isn't the lab that is correct? Not taking into consideration past history or COA's. Just looking at the two in front of us.
I agree with you in part. Jano can definitely make mistakes. What I am saying is there is no way that Freedom is doing that amount of load in the same time there were doing it with a lighter load. They couldn’t have tooled up and staffed up that quick. That with the fact of a bunch of other failures in the recent past. If it looks like a duck….
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@Nuncles I think you always have to look at the history unless something changed to fix some obvious issues. Janoshik isn’t perfect but they have the reference standards unlike many other labs and have been the most reliable. They certainly can be wrong but if you asked me to bet the house on who got it right I am saying Janoshik. Let’s hear who you got?
@Stevepep I’m pretty sure that a lab won’t confirm an ID without reference material. I know the lab that I use won’t. I even asked if they’d test Eloralintide and Cartalax for me. I was told they didn’t have the reference standards yet for those two so no can do.
I asked how about just confirming the molecular weight of the Elora? Nope. What I get from that is that no self respecting lab that wants to stay in business will confirm samples without the proper reference standards.
In fact, my lab recently started including the reference trace with the sample trace…. See the chromatogram and mass traces for a recent Retatrutide sample. The sample is directly above the reference.
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@senex_mus Exactly this
Just because one bottle passes sterility doesn't mean the whole batch will. Just because one fails doesn't mean every bottle is contaminated.
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@Stevepep I’m pretty sure that a lab won’t confirm an ID without reference material. I know the lab that I use won’t. I even asked if they’d test Eloralintide and Cartalax for me. I was told they didn’t have the reference standards yet for those two so no can do.
I asked how about just confirming the molecular weight of the Elora? Nope. What I get from that is that no self respecting lab that wants to stay in business will confirm samples without the proper reference standards.
In fact, my lab recently started including the reference trace with the sample trace…. See the chromatogram and mass traces for a recent Retatrutide sample. The sample is directly above the reference.@mikebricker most labs have them for glp’s they are cheap and readily available, when it comes to things like Tesa, SS31 etc they are expensive and harder to get at 100pct. Labs also keep their own standards to test against them and build a catalogue. There are few that can afford them once you get passed things like Reta. That’s not the one to worry about
Do you have any from your lab showing these other peptides that would be great to see. I actually think this would be great for labs to show this on everything they test. Some of these standards run 6 to 10 grand that’s a lot of tests at $100 a test. Reta is like $1500 for a standard much more palpable
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@mikebricker most labs have them for glp’s they are cheap and readily available, when it comes to things like Tesa, SS31 etc they are expensive and harder to get at 100pct. Labs also keep their own standards to test against them and build a catalogue. There are few that can afford them once you get passed things like Reta. That’s not the one to worry about
Do you have any from your lab showing these other peptides that would be great to see. I actually think this would be great for labs to show this on everything they test. Some of these standards run 6 to 10 grand that’s a lot of tests at $100 a test. Reta is like $1500 for a standard much more palpable
@Stevepep They’ve always showed the Chromatogram and Mass traces. On all their samples.
Just recently they started including the reference mass traces under the sample traces.
Here’s two more recent. MOTSc and a GHK-Cu/KPV blend.
SS-31 without reference trace.
PS., you know which lab these are from….
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@senex_mus what about endotoxins
@Stevepep endotoxins come along with bacteria, and without bacteria. So, unfortunately, back to same conclusion, some samples with, some without, although my guess is that contaminated vials will test positive for endotoxin more often.
Can't give a firm opinion, didn't work in the endo lab or the final testing lab. Worked testing the environments. The fill was one of them.
?Perhaps someone here has experience in an endo lab?
When I interviewed for the job, they showed me a part of the endo lab where they kept the rabbits. They'd dose them and to check for pyrogens, monitor their temperatures via a probe up the rabbits rear end... They ask me what I thought, and being a kinda off color guy, I said "Oh, it'll be great when someone ask me what I do for work... I probe rabbits" and laughed.
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@Randy Does that mean these sterility tests are pretty much pointless since they don't guarantee the vial you have is sterile?
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@Randy Does that mean these sterility tests are pretty much pointless since they don't guarantee the vial you have is sterile?
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@Stevepep They’ve always showed the Chromatogram and Mass traces. On all their samples.
Just recently they started including the reference mass traces under the sample traces.
Here’s two more recent. MOTSc and a GHK-Cu/KPV blend.
SS-31 without reference trace.
PS., you know which lab these are from….
@mikebricker I like it now if they could just get an accurate measurement of quantity they might be on to something.
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@Randy Does that mean these sterility tests are pretty much pointless since they don't guarantee the vial you have is sterile?
@Superpep You just need to test multiple vials from a batch. A few labs let you test 10 vials for the same price as one for sterility.
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Freedom doesnt test sterility with a validated method. Its a bioburden method. nice that its fast, but its not recognized as an equivalent to USP 71
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@mikebricker I like it now if they could just get an accurate measurement of quantity they might be on to something.
@Stevepep Yeah, I don’t think it’s as bad as you think. For a 10mg label on a few peps, K was 9.3mg and J was 11.2 same batch numbers. K is very consistent with the weights. Not sure what their method is, but one is low and the other high. Which is correct, or maybe both are off a bit? Hard to say.
I will say I’ve never seen a J chromatogram or MS trace with their COAs. So I can ask Claude or Grok to analyze the COA and tell me about the ID and purity from the supplied traces, or view the reference standard compared to my sample…. Hmmmm… Then there’s the triple the price issue…. -
@Stevepep Yeah, I don’t think it’s as bad as you think. For a 10mg label on a few peps, K was 9.3mg and J was 11.2 same batch numbers. K is very consistent with the weights. Not sure what their method is, but one is low and the other high. Which is correct, or maybe both are off a bit? Hard to say.
I will say I’ve never seen a J chromatogram or MS trace with their COAs. So I can ask Claude or Grok to analyze the COA and tell me about the ID and purity from the supplied traces, or view the reference standard compared to my sample…. Hmmmm… Then there’s the triple the price issue….@mikebricker I get it you like them I think we all do at this point. Just search the forum it’s not just being under its inconsistency. Try it send them vials from the same batch weeks apart. People did it on Finnrick and got different weights. It’s why it’s hard to find a company who uses them and they cozied up to Finnrick.
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