Freedom Again
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@senex_mus Exactly this
Just because one bottle passes sterility doesn't mean the whole batch will. Just because one fails doesn't mean every bottle is contaminated.
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@Stevepep I’m pretty sure that a lab won’t confirm an ID without reference material. I know the lab that I use won’t. I even asked if they’d test Eloralintide and Cartalax for me. I was told they didn’t have the reference standards yet for those two so no can do.
I asked how about just confirming the molecular weight of the Elora? Nope. What I get from that is that no self respecting lab that wants to stay in business will confirm samples without the proper reference standards.
In fact, my lab recently started including the reference trace with the sample trace…. See the chromatogram and mass traces for a recent Retatrutide sample. The sample is directly above the reference.
@mikebricker most labs have them for glp’s they are cheap and readily available, when it comes to things like Tesa, SS31 etc they are expensive and harder to get at 100pct. Labs also keep their own standards to test against them and build a catalogue. There are few that can afford them once you get passed things like Reta. That’s not the one to worry about
Do you have any from your lab showing these other peptides that would be great to see. I actually think this would be great for labs to show this on everything they test. Some of these standards run 6 to 10 grand that’s a lot of tests at $100 a test. Reta is like $1500 for a standard much more palpable
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@mikebricker most labs have them for glp’s they are cheap and readily available, when it comes to things like Tesa, SS31 etc they are expensive and harder to get at 100pct. Labs also keep their own standards to test against them and build a catalogue. There are few that can afford them once you get passed things like Reta. That’s not the one to worry about
Do you have any from your lab showing these other peptides that would be great to see. I actually think this would be great for labs to show this on everything they test. Some of these standards run 6 to 10 grand that’s a lot of tests at $100 a test. Reta is like $1500 for a standard much more palpable
@Stevepep They’ve always showed the Chromatogram and Mass traces. On all their samples.
Just recently they started including the reference mass traces under the sample traces.
Here’s two more recent. MOTSc and a GHK-Cu/KPV blend.
SS-31 without reference trace.
PS., you know which lab these are from….
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@senex_mus what about endotoxins
@Stevepep endotoxins come along with bacteria, and without bacteria. So, unfortunately, back to same conclusion, some samples with, some without, although my guess is that contaminated vials will test positive for endotoxin more often.
Can't give a firm opinion, didn't work in the endo lab or the final testing lab. Worked testing the environments. The fill was one of them.
?Perhaps someone here has experience in an endo lab?
When I interviewed for the job, they showed me a part of the endo lab where they kept the rabbits. They'd dose them and to check for pyrogens, monitor their temperatures via a probe up the rabbits rear end... They ask me what I thought, and being a kinda off color guy, I said "Oh, it'll be great when someone ask me what I do for work... I probe rabbits" and laughed.
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@Randy Does that mean these sterility tests are pretty much pointless since they don't guarantee the vial you have is sterile?
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@Randy Does that mean these sterility tests are pretty much pointless since they don't guarantee the vial you have is sterile?
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@Stevepep They’ve always showed the Chromatogram and Mass traces. On all their samples.
Just recently they started including the reference mass traces under the sample traces.
Here’s two more recent. MOTSc and a GHK-Cu/KPV blend.
SS-31 without reference trace.
PS., you know which lab these are from….
@mikebricker I like it now if they could just get an accurate measurement of quantity they might be on to something.
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@Randy Does that mean these sterility tests are pretty much pointless since they don't guarantee the vial you have is sterile?
@Superpep You just need to test multiple vials from a batch. A few labs let you test 10 vials for the same price as one for sterility.
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Freedom doesnt test sterility with a validated method. Its a bioburden method. nice that its fast, but its not recognized as an equivalent to USP 71
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@mikebricker I like it now if they could just get an accurate measurement of quantity they might be on to something.
@Stevepep Yeah, I don’t think it’s as bad as you think. For a 10mg label on a few peps, K was 9.3mg and J was 11.2 same batch numbers. K is very consistent with the weights. Not sure what their method is, but one is low and the other high. Which is correct, or maybe both are off a bit? Hard to say.
I will say I’ve never seen a J chromatogram or MS trace with their COAs. So I can ask Claude or Grok to analyze the COA and tell me about the ID and purity from the supplied traces, or view the reference standard compared to my sample…. Hmmmm… Then there’s the triple the price issue…. -
@Stevepep Yeah, I don’t think it’s as bad as you think. For a 10mg label on a few peps, K was 9.3mg and J was 11.2 same batch numbers. K is very consistent with the weights. Not sure what their method is, but one is low and the other high. Which is correct, or maybe both are off a bit? Hard to say.
I will say I’ve never seen a J chromatogram or MS trace with their COAs. So I can ask Claude or Grok to analyze the COA and tell me about the ID and purity from the supplied traces, or view the reference standard compared to my sample…. Hmmmm… Then there’s the triple the price issue….@mikebricker I get it you like them I think we all do at this point. Just search the forum it’s not just being under its inconsistency. Try it send them vials from the same batch weeks apart. People did it on Finnrick and got different weights. It’s why it’s hard to find a company who uses them and they cozied up to Finnrick.
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@mikebricker I get it you like them I think we all do at this point. Just search the forum it’s not just being under its inconsistency. Try it send them vials from the same batch weeks apart. People did it on Finnrick and got different weights. It’s why it’s hard to find a company who uses them and they cozied up to Finnrick.
@Stevepep The past is the past, and not a solid indicator of present and future performance.
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@Stevepep The past is the past, and not a solid indicator of present and future performance.
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I literally cont give two shits about sterility. Full fricking stop.
Everything get filtered thru at least a 0.22 and anything j cant do with BAC or i feel might benefit gets the 0.10um.
If its not sterile in the vial it's not gonna grow there either especially if its frozen or in the fridge.
Endo. Thats whats far more important than sterility.
As for janoshik. The number of COA i see with no vial ID on them is WAY more than it should be for the price. $750 COA with no vile ID is worth zero dollars. Also, why are they not showing the spectrogram?.
Freedom always shows me vile ID and pictures and the spectrogram and methods used to evaluate that I can look at myself. This makes a freedom COA more useful than a janoshik with info missing because they are too busy to add that info in.
These are just objective facts, even if you don’t like freedom for some reason.
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I literally cont give two shits about sterility. Full fricking stop.
Everything get filtered thru at least a 0.22 and anything j cant do with BAC or i feel might benefit gets the 0.10um.
If its not sterile in the vial it's not gonna grow there either especially if its frozen or in the fridge.
Endo. Thats whats far more important than sterility.
As for janoshik. The number of COA i see with no vial ID on them is WAY more than it should be for the price. $750 COA with no vile ID is worth zero dollars. Also, why are they not showing the spectrogram?.
Freedom always shows me vile ID and pictures and the spectrogram and methods used to evaluate that I can look at myself. This makes a freedom COA more useful than a janoshik with info missing because they are too busy to add that info in.
These are just objective facts, even if you don’t like freedom for some reason.
@ogsteve endos may come along for the ride with non-sterility unfortunately. Think levels likely depend upon how much growth there's been in the vial and the resulting garbage generated. Another reason to keep things chilled and dry if possible; cooling and dehydration slow growth.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/endotoxin
"Endotoxin is defined as a toxic substance released from the outer membrane of certain bacteria, such as E. coli, primarily consisting of lipopolysaccharide (LPS), which includes lipid A. It is responsible for various diseases in humans and is a significant contaminant in the pharmaceutical and food industries." -
I literally cont give two shits about sterility. Full fricking stop.
Everything get filtered thru at least a 0.22 and anything j cant do with BAC or i feel might benefit gets the 0.10um.
If its not sterile in the vial it's not gonna grow there either especially if its frozen or in the fridge.
Endo. Thats whats far more important than sterility.
As for janoshik. The number of COA i see with no vial ID on them is WAY more than it should be for the price. $750 COA with no vile ID is worth zero dollars. Also, why are they not showing the spectrogram?.
Freedom always shows me vile ID and pictures and the spectrogram and methods used to evaluate that I can look at myself. This makes a freedom COA more useful than a janoshik with info missing because they are too busy to add that info in.
These are just objective facts, even if you don’t like freedom for some reason.
@ogsteve I don’t like freedom because they have proven to be inaccurate on purity, endotoxins and sterility other than that they are great. This was proven out by vendors themselves sending samples to multiple labs.
Vendors opt out of the photos at every lab it’s not the lab it’s the vendor on that issue.
Filtering will not get all contaminants I filter as an added safety step. Not caring about sterility is nuts imo. Killing off the bacteria creates endotoxins they go hand and hand for the most part. Peter from Janoshik has said many times if a sample passes sterility it’s is extremely rare to not pass endotoxins and said the opposite is also true. In fact he said he would just test for sterility and not endotoxins.
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@ogsteve I don’t like freedom because they have proven to be inaccurate on purity, endotoxins and sterility other than that they are great. This was proven out by vendors themselves sending samples to multiple labs.
Vendors opt out of the photos at every lab it’s not the lab it’s the vendor on that issue.
Filtering will not get all contaminants I filter as an added safety step. Not caring about sterility is nuts imo. Killing off the bacteria creates endotoxins they go hand and hand for the most part. Peter from Janoshik has said many times if a sample passes sterility it’s is extremely rare to not pass endotoxins and said the opposite is also true. In fact he said he would just test for sterility and not endotoxins.
@Stevepep lol. I hear what you are saying. Personally i dont interpret the data like that as its more of a correlation vs causation arguement on whether the individual vial was bad or the extended shipping time to Czechoslovakia or the lab methodology or the preparation (ever seen them dip into that giant open container of sterile water repeatedly?). There are just too many intervening factors for me to outright condemn a lab that at least consistently produces quality COAs with the requisite data every time.
Now when we get to the 99.89% consistent results, I don’t agree with not including peaks outside of the identified compound in the overall purity percentage. Were it me I would like to have all of the items in the vile listed along with the amount that’s in there. To me that’s real data and I agree with your condemnation on that front 100%. Of course that is certainly not limited to freedom diagnostics
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