Mots-c and SS-31

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Looking for opinions on how necessary it is to run SS-31 before Mots-c. Ready to add Mots to my stack tomorrow and second guessing myself with all the talk about SS-31. Would it hurt to try the Mots first? I have a generally low carb diet and have intermittent fasted for years. Already have the Mots and adding to CJC/Ipa, Reta
Thanks guys

jackieee

Not sure, but I ran MOTS-c for almost 12 weeks and I have never run SS-31.

ResearchCat

If you don’t have significant metabolism dysfunction, you probably don’t need SS-31 beforehand.

quicksilver80

@ResearchCat the way i see it is if alot of us were heavy to begin with. its not like our metabolism was doing good in the first place. im not seeing any serious side effects. worth a try.

kenhnsy

@Stan-Douglas said in Mots-c and SS-31:

I'm at 8 today:

I'm about to cycle back on and count 12 filled pens in the refrigerator. 2 more coming up. Freaks. All of you.

ResearchCat

@gym.rat @quicksilver80 Yeah, I am by no means the authority. A lot of us tend to do all of the things, and it’s hard to assume we either do or do not need on particular thing. I am willing to bet that researching MOTS-C by itself will be effective, but also that running the mechanic stack (SS-31, MOTS-C, NAD+) will also be effective. I don’t know how old or healthy people are, and while I often assume the young folks are in better shape than me, I have been made aware that a lot of young guys’ metabolisms are messed up for a variety of reasons.

As the saying goes, “that’s why they call it research.”

My standard disclaimer is that I am focused on longevity and healthspan, so I won’t know if any of it is working until I’m dead.

Commander

@jackie
Only a couple of weeks so far

jackieee

I got SO dark after 10 days on MT-1.

theckman80

@Juan-Doe NAD+ is what your mitochondria burn to make ATP. You can actually duel the salvage pathway with niacinamide (niacin) and your body turns it into nad+. Its a lot cheaper that way.

The ninja nerd guy on YouTube has some great videos on the Electron Transpot Chain/Cellular Respiration.

Juan Doe

@theckman80 Niacin. Just straight supplement? Sounds too simple to be true.

vpeps

@Juan-Doe Niacin works well to raise my NAD levels in cells. A 500 mg Niacin pill works a lot better than NMN or NR at higher doses as I tested. I did "Intracellular NAD" tests before and after, multiple times. And those NAD+ injections are virtually useless, except some transient feel-good (or bad for some) they don't raise NAD in the tissues.
Another story though is to ask whether we benefit from high NAD levels. I am not sure about it, probably not. But if you want them up, Niacin works the best.

Juan Doe

@vpeptides NMN or NR???? what are those?

@gym.rat Niacinamide? Vitamin B3? in what form? Cream, pill, injection?

My mind is going places right now because of this.

vpeps

@Juan-Doe those are NAD precursors, similar to Niacin but a lot more expensive, usually taken orally.

iMemphis18

@Commander out of curiosity, I don't disagree that its so much faster, but I feel like its a bit of a waste for certain peptides right?

For example, Tesamorelin, 10 MG, with 1ML Bac water, i do 2mg -- which is 20 units. After about 4-5 days, i need to refill again, swap vials etc.

or.... do people combine for example, 3 vials of Tesa, 10mg into the injection pen vial? This will def make each 3ML pen vial last longer. I am just curious on your thoughts. Been debating on $$ vs time saved. Especially since we need to buy the separate needle, then the 3 ML vial to go with the pen.

theckman80

@gym.rat I didn't know it had an effect on arthritis, ill have to get some for my brother.

Commander

@iMemphis18 said in Mots-c and SS-31:

@Commander out of curiosity, I don't disagree that its so much faster, but I feel like its a bit of a waste for certain peptides right?

For example, Tesamorelin, 10 MG, with 1ML Bac water, i do 2mg -- which is 20 units. After about 4-5 days, i need to refill again, swap vials etc.

or.... do people combine for example, 3 vials of Tesa, 10mg into the injection pen vial? This will def make each 3ML pen vial last longer. I am just curious on your thoughts. Been debating on $$ vs time saved. Especially since we need to buy the separate needle, then the 3 ML vial to go with the pen.

I put 3 vials of 10mg Tesa in the pen cart. That is how you save time.

WowwyZowwy

@vpeptides Regarding NAD+ injections being "useless," any specific research that you can share on this? Anecdotally, the feedback within this community has been overwhelmingly positive (especially between the 50-100mg daily dosage. Could it really be all placebo effect? For context, what dosages were utilized in the studies you're referencing?

ResearchCat

@commander running the same thing right now. The most I have stuffed into one cart is 7 vials of epitalon. I can only stuff 2 500mg NAD+ vials into one cart with 2.5ml bac water. A third will not dissolve (or fit.)

vpeps

@WowwyZowwy See this article, for example.

In a recent pilot study, researchers found that NAD+ IVs did not elevate blood NAD+ until 24 hours after infusion—and then only by about 2% compared to baseline.6 This suggests that much of the infused NAD+ is broken down outside cells into smaller components like nicotinamide (NAM) or ADP-ribose.

In that same pilot study, those receiving NAD+ IV also experienced an elevated white blood cell count, which may indicate an inflammatory immune response. When extracellular NAD+ levels in the bloodstream rise above normal, as can happen with high-dose IV infusions, the body may interpret this as trauma within the body, leading to an immune response, and potentially causing inflammation.

TrueNorth

I came across a great video by Dr Brad Stanfield where he outlines a bunch of the NAD Literature and clinical data. He's not a peptide guy, he's a supplement guy, but the information is still excellent.

The main conclusion of the clinical data as some have already noted, is that high dosing just straight is not only as effective but also significantly cheaper and efficient.

The bigger question that gets covered in the video is 'does raising NAD Levels even make a difference?'. Again, using very recent clinical data as a reference, there isn't much evidence that raising NAD really makes much of a measurable difference.

I don't I'm allowed to post links here, but if you search on YouTube under "New Study Says I Was Wrong About NMN and NR?" , a video from Dr Brad Stanfield should appear and it's worth a listen if you are interested in the literature surrounding NAD.