Tesa vs CJC?
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Just finished a test vial of Tesa after running CJC/IPA for 12 weeks. Had 10mg from a friend so decided to run 5 day course of the vial. No flushing like CJC (as mentioned above), but after 3rd day, joints started to hurt a bit and scale up 3-4 pounds from water retention. Wasn't a fan...CJC it is for me.....well....GH, really...
If you're headed somewhere, just go there...
Just finished a test vial of Tesa after running CJC/IPA for 12 weeks. Had 10mg from a friend so decided to run 5 day course of the vial. No flushing like CJC (as mentioned above), but after 3rd day, joints started to hurt a bit and scale up 3-4 pounds from water retention. Wasn't a fan...CJC it is for me.....well....GH, really...
If you're headed somewhere, just go there...
2mg is way too high of a newbie starter dose. You should have gone 1mg. Also, the water retention and joint issues is a by product of high GH......which means it was working.
If you're so susceptible of side effects from GH that 2mg of Tesa gave you joint pain and water retention within the first week, even something as small as 1iu of HGH is likely going to do the same thing.
What is your baseline igf-1 level that you're going from?
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It’s the GHRH competing with insulin. Insulin blunts the GHRH effectiveness. I have been researching in the morning right when I get up and then don’t eat for 1-2 hours after. Seems to work fine and guarantees you’re fasted. I can’t fast 3 hours before bed.
Edited to be more accurate.
@ResearchCat My dumb question of the morning. Since I typically don't eat in the morning either, I'm leaning towards morning doses when I start my cycle. With that said, i do usually have a protein drink and fiber drink in the morning. While not eating per se, should I delay them for a couple of hours if I decide on the morning protocol? I suspect so, but don't want to overthink it. Thanks for any imput.
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Just finished a test vial of Tesa after running CJC/IPA for 12 weeks. Had 10mg from a friend so decided to run 5 day course of the vial. No flushing like CJC (as mentioned above), but after 3rd day, joints started to hurt a bit and scale up 3-4 pounds from water retention. Wasn't a fan...CJC it is for me.....well....GH, really...
If you're headed somewhere, just go there...
2mg is way too high of a newbie starter dose. You should have gone 1mg. Also, the water retention and joint issues is a by product of high GH......which means it was working.
If you're so susceptible of side effects from GH that 2mg of Tesa gave you joint pain and water retention within the first week, even something as small as 1iu of HGH is likely going to do the same thing.
What is your baseline igf-1 level that you're going from?
@Neil-McCauley Thought process was that I had been running what was considered standard for CJC/IPA for 3 mo prior. IGF-1 at 140.
I plan on starting GH at 1iu
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@ResearchCat My dumb question of the morning. Since I typically don't eat in the morning either, I'm leaning towards morning doses when I start my cycle. With that said, i do usually have a protein drink and fiber drink in the morning. While not eating per se, should I delay them for a couple of hours if I decide on the morning protocol? I suspect so, but don't want to overthink it. Thanks for any imput.
@coondogesq As I understand it, anything that breaks the fast will increase insulin, stunting the GH pulse. It seems generally accepted for either morning or night dose to do on empty stomach and delay eating for 1-2hr.
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@ResearchCat My dumb question of the morning. Since I typically don't eat in the morning either, I'm leaning towards morning doses when I start my cycle. With that said, i do usually have a protein drink and fiber drink in the morning. While not eating per se, should I delay them for a couple of hours if I decide on the morning protocol? I suspect so, but don't want to overthink it. Thanks for any imput.
@coondogesq Yes because as soon as you put any calories in your mouth the fast ends and insulin spikes.
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Agreed with @hunt_ak and @shaqdiesel. I will drink black coffee but no calories for 1-2 hours afterwards. And yeah, it’s usually a protein shake and my creatine/fiber blend. Opinions vary but most people agree somewhere in the 1-2 hours range is fine, since the GH pulse will likely be shorter than that. Some folks (I think Randy has said) using GH or Tesa have said they fast as long as they can, but they are also doing intermittent fasting and weren’t planning to eat anyway.
My challenge - and for many GLP-1 users - is to balance optimal preparation for peptide protocols with the need to onboard macros at target levels. And as stated previously, fasting for 3 hours before bed just isn’t possible for me without falling short of my macros.
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@ResearchCat My dumb question of the morning. Since I typically don't eat in the morning either, I'm leaning towards morning doses when I start my cycle. With that said, i do usually have a protein drink and fiber drink in the morning. While not eating per se, should I delay them for a couple of hours if I decide on the morning protocol? I suspect so, but don't want to overthink it. Thanks for any imput.
@ResearchCat My dumb question of the morning. Since I typically don't eat in the morning either, I'm leaning towards morning doses when I start my cycle. With that said, i do usually have a protein drink and fiber drink in the morning. While not eating per se, should I delay them for a couple of hours if I decide on the morning protocol? I suspect so, but don't want to overthink it. Thanks for any imput.
Go the full 2 hours if you can. The GH boost is primarily within the first 60 minutes post pin, but there is a transient amount in that second hour that ideally you want to take advantage of.
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Appreciate everyone confirming my presumptions.
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Just finished a test vial of Tesa after running CJC/IPA for 12 weeks. Had 10mg from a friend so decided to run 5 day course of the vial. No flushing like CJC (as mentioned above), but after 3rd day, joints started to hurt a bit and scale up 3-4 pounds from water retention. Wasn't a fan...CJC it is for me.....well....GH, really...
If you're headed somewhere, just go there...
2mg is way too high of a newbie starter dose. You should have gone 1mg. Also, the water retention and joint issues is a by product of high GH......which means it was working.
If you're so susceptible of side effects from GH that 2mg of Tesa gave you joint pain and water retention within the first week, even something as small as 1iu of HGH is likely going to do the same thing.
What is your baseline igf-1 level that you're going from?
@Neil-McCauley This is great advice. I stopped taking Tesa because of the side effects, and I was researching the recommended 2mg/day. It didn’t really occur to me to drop to 1mg, at least partially because I planned to switch back to CJC/Ipa. If I was committed to Tesa, that would have been a good idea.
I have researched Sermorelin and CJC/Ipa previously and neither caused the side effects that Tesa did. Not sure if it was purely dosing or specific to the peptide. My Sermorelin dosing was probably conservative, CJC/Ipa normal to slightly aggressive, and 2mg for Tesa, which is possibly too high.
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Hoping to get assistant for my research subject. If I watch Josh’s video he’s leaving towards CJC for price and similar effect?
@jborja @researchcat @commander I don't get this I know Tesa is supposed to stimulate growth hormone, but the research is on abdominal fat in AIDS patients. I use CJC/IPA and saw all of my testosterone levels increase on my monthly blood testing, so I have factual proof it works. I take it at night, probably never more than 2 -3 hours fasted. SHBG up 29% to optimal, Free up 36% to optimal, and total up 43% to 874, also optimal. The proof is in the blood work. For whatever reason, my Estrogen is my only marker that is not average or optimal. It may be related to recovery, sleep, and stress. I can't listen to Josh with his cocky I know everything because I am tatted up, steroid abuser. I think he actually knows less than most of us on here. Why he hasn't been shut down makes no sense.
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@jborja @researchcat @commander I don't get this I know Tesa is supposed to stimulate growth hormone, but the research is on abdominal fat in AIDS patients. I use CJC/IPA and saw all of my testosterone levels increase on my monthly blood testing, so I have factual proof it works. I take it at night, probably never more than 2 -3 hours fasted. SHBG up 29% to optimal, Free up 36% to optimal, and total up 43% to 874, also optimal. The proof is in the blood work. For whatever reason, my Estrogen is my only marker that is not average or optimal. It may be related to recovery, sleep, and stress. I can't listen to Josh with his cocky I know everything because I am tatted up, steroid abuser. I think he actually knows less than most of us on here. Why he hasn't been shut down makes no sense.
@Stevepep as far as I understood the GHRH analogs (CJC/IPA like you mention) are going to pulse GH, telling your liver to produce IGF-1. An increase in IGF-1 production shouldn't have a correlation to testosterone production.
Am I missing something here? Seems to be two different conversations.
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@Stevepep as far as I understood the GHRH analogs (CJC/IPA like you mention) are going to pulse GH, telling your liver to produce IGF-1. An increase in IGF-1 production shouldn't have a correlation to testosterone production.
Am I missing something here? Seems to be two different conversations.
@hunt_ak it stimulates the pituitary gland to produce growth hormone. There are actually a couple of videos of people getting blood work after 30 and 60 days who had similar results to me. Everyone is different in terms of exercise, diet, sleep etc so results will always vary but it worked miracles for me. I am in my 50’s my rythm score is over 90 and my biological age is 14 years younger on my Rythm blood test. I just can’t forgive out the one market, estrogen that is off.
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@Stevepep as far as I understood the GHRH analogs (CJC/IPA like you mention) are going to pulse GH, telling your liver to produce IGF-1. An increase in IGF-1 production shouldn't have a correlation to testosterone production.
Am I missing something here? Seems to be two different conversations.
@hunt_ak it stimulates the pituitary gland to produce growth hormone. There are actually a couple of videos of people getting blood work after 30 and 60 days who had similar results to me. Everyone is different in terms of exercise, diet, sleep etc so results will always vary but it worked miracles for me. I do the rhythm blood test every 30 days to track results. It’s the only way to verify what’s working and what’s not or what may be having a negative effect. Otherwise I feel like you are using peptides in the blind. Dexa is a good indicator as well. I just tested telomeres as I am going to start Epitalon waiting on those results and then I will test once the cycle is done to see if there was any improvement.
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@jborja @researchcat @commander I don't get this I know Tesa is supposed to stimulate growth hormone, but the research is on abdominal fat in AIDS patients. I use CJC/IPA and saw all of my testosterone levels increase on my monthly blood testing, so I have factual proof it works. I take it at night, probably never more than 2 -3 hours fasted. SHBG up 29% to optimal, Free up 36% to optimal, and total up 43% to 874, also optimal. The proof is in the blood work. For whatever reason, my Estrogen is my only marker that is not average or optimal. It may be related to recovery, sleep, and stress. I can't listen to Josh with his cocky I know everything because I am tatted up, steroid abuser. I think he actually knows less than most of us on here. Why he hasn't been shut down makes no sense.
@Stevepep strictly with respect to GHRH secretagogues, they all work on similar pathways. Tesa was researched specifically to combat visceral fat in AIDS patients and that is its prescription use, but that doesn’t mean other GHRH don’t do the same, or similar. It just means a pharma company spent a lot of money researching one particular outcome.
I think Dr. Foreze has a video talking about this wrt Tesa, and I know Josh has one.
I think a big part of why we all love CJC/Ipa is that it does two things: it triggers the GH pulse and also removes the limiter on the pulse so you can get a bigger pulse.
Sermorelin is the ‘safest’ in that it generates the most subtle pulse and also takes muchlonger to see results. Everyone is selling it now(telehelath) bc it is FDA approved.
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@Stevepep strictly with respect to GHRH secretagogues, they all work on similar pathways. Tesa was researched specifically to combat visceral fat in AIDS patients and that is its prescription use, but that doesn’t mean other GHRH don’t do the same, or similar. It just means a pharma company spent a lot of money researching one particular outcome.
I think Dr. Foreze has a video talking about this wrt Tesa, and I know Josh has one.
I think a big part of why we all love CJC/Ipa is that it does two things: it triggers the GH pulse and also removes the limiter on the pulse so you can get a bigger pulse.
Sermorelin is the ‘safest’ in that it generates the most subtle pulse and also takes muchlonger to see results. Everyone is selling it now(telehelath) bc it is FDA approved.
@ResearchCat makes sense I have done a lot of research on CJC1295 specifically from an aging perspective as it relates to testosterone production. I haven’t researched Tesa mostly because I don’t have abdominal fat anymore. Mostly what I am after now is longevity and general health and being as fit as I can be so it really depends on one’s goals
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@Stevepep as far as I understood the GHRH analogs (CJC/IPA like you mention) are going to pulse GH, telling your liver to produce IGF-1. An increase in IGF-1 production shouldn't have a correlation to testosterone production.
Am I missing something here? Seems to be two different conversations.
@Stevepep as far as I understood the GHRH analogs (CJC/IPA like you mention) are going to pulse GH, telling your liver to produce IGF-1. An increase in IGF-1 production shouldn't have a correlation to testosterone production.
Am I missing something here? Seems to be two different conversations.
They are bigtime correlated. People who use GHRT often see, on average, a 10% increase in testosterone levels, although some see increases much, much higher. Same goes in reverse - those who use TRT often see an increase in that same 10% or so range in IGF-1 numbers.
This is also true of DHEA replacement - it will often move the needle for both IGF-1 and testosterone. All these hormones seem to work in concert and there is overlapping everywhere.
When things go decline, hormonaly speaking, they tend to drop everywhere. When one hormonal level breaks and degrades it tends to drag others down with it.
The good news is that also works in reverse, when you fix one aspect of the hormonal symphony, others tend to get up to speed and repair themselves, at least to some partial degree.
Let's use GH for example. As GH levels and therefore igf-1 levels decline, we see both Increases in SHBG levels and a decline of LH function in the testes. Both of these in turn also contribute to lower testosterone levels.
Increases in igf-1-->lowers SHBG levels back to normal baseline. It also reinvigorates the leydig cells to work again and respond to LH signaling. Bundle those two together and you see increases in testosterone.
Testosterone is partially responsible for the GHRH pulses in the HTPA. So as your Testosterone levels decline in age, so your GH pulses in the pituitary. Take an exogenous drug like testosterone that amplifies GHRH pulses and you see increases in igf-1/GH levels. We know this from studying puberty - the dramatic shift in increasing igf-1 levels are partially androgen driven, not necessarily from any changes in the HTPA elsewhere.
Testosterone also has a positive effect on GH/igf-1 receptor effectivess throughout the body, not just the liver but also all the tissues as well.
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@Stevepep as far as I understood the GHRH analogs (CJC/IPA like you mention) are going to pulse GH, telling your liver to produce IGF-1. An increase in IGF-1 production shouldn't have a correlation to testosterone production.
Am I missing something here? Seems to be two different conversations.
They are bigtime correlated. People who use GHRT often see, on average, a 10% increase in testosterone levels, although some see increases much, much higher. Same goes in reverse - those who use TRT often see an increase in that same 10% or so range in IGF-1 numbers.
This is also true of DHEA replacement - it will often move the needle for both IGF-1 and testosterone. All these hormones seem to work in concert and there is overlapping everywhere.
When things go decline, hormonaly speaking, they tend to drop everywhere. When one hormonal level breaks and degrades it tends to drag others down with it.
The good news is that also works in reverse, when you fix one aspect of the hormonal symphony, others tend to get up to speed and repair themselves, at least to some partial degree.
Let's use GH for example. As GH levels and therefore igf-1 levels decline, we see both Increases in SHBG levels and a decline of LH function in the testes. Both of these in turn also contribute to lower testosterone levels.
Increases in igf-1-->lowers SHBG levels back to normal baseline. It also reinvigorates the leydig cells to work again and respond to LH signaling. Bundle those two together and you see increases in testosterone.
Testosterone is partially responsible for the GHRH pulses in the HTPA. So as your Testosterone levels decline in age, so your GH pulses in the pituitary. Take an exogenous drug like testosterone that amplifies GHRH pulses and you see increases in igf-1/GH levels. We know this from studying puberty - the dramatic shift in increasing igf-1 levels are partially androgen driven, not necessarily from any changes in the HTPA elsewhere.
Testosterone also has a positive effect on GH/igf-1 receptor effectivess throughout the body, not just the liver but also all the tissues as well.
@Neil-McCauley I would also add that the environment created by fasting 1-3 hours before bed and the improvments in sleep and recovery paired with improved lypolisis are a great envirnoment for the male hormones tho improve.
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I've run thesein different ways here what I noticed.
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Tesa Solo 1.8mg Daily Morning dose - initially added water weight that slowly subsided - stregth and muslce to fat ratio on HUME improved at a slow rate - Recovery not noticible sleep scores didn't change Fasting Glucose maintained baslines.
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Tesa Solo 1.8mg Night Dose Morning dose Similar to the Morning dose stregth and trend in HUME Pod - Recovery slightly improved sleep score slightly better Fasting Glucose maintained baslines
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Tesa/ IPA 1.2mg /400mcg - 3 hour fasted before Bed, hands down best at droping viseral fat on the HUME and building muscle at the same time moved the needle the most on the HUME along with significant improvment in sleep scores and noticibly feeling refreshed in the morning - drier look less water retention my favorite overall resutls. and more cost effective than just Tesa. Fasting Glucose maintained baslines
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CJC No Dac/ IPA 350 mcg of each Before bed fasted 3 hours- My best sleep and body battery scores and favorit for sleep and recovery. Good at muscle preservation and still saw drop in viseral fat but not as dramatic as Tesa/IPA trends and served more as muscle preservation vs buiding. I started to see the Dawn effect with this stack 3 months in eventually in my fasting glucose on some days but my GKI was still under 20 becasue my ketones were high in the morning 0.6-0.8 mmol. Post meal glucose and inslulin sensitivity was solid though driving down my keytones and blood sugar to below the elevated fasting blood glucose, indicating the GH pulsing was significant during the night putting me into mild ketosis while the liver dumped cortisol and glucose when I woke up. Anyways I went off cycle and my fating glucose numbers when back to basline withing 2 days. Love this stack for sleep and recovery though.
Overall I was most happy with the results of Tesa/ IPA and how much it moved the needle in body composition while still improving rest and recovery with CJC/IPA close second.
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