Enclomiphene sourcing
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It really amazes how with every new rabbit hole I go down in this space, i spend more time trying to find the signal buried in the noise, misinformation, bad information, etc.
I find it even more annoying that it looks like most telehealth companies package enclomiphene, tadalafil, and other bullshit into a single pill at way too high a dose(imo.)
@ResearchCat yeah i was asking meso about this whole rabbit hole and i feel like its such a niche question noone wanted to mess with it. Like yes these bigger domestic grey market people have coas but it doesnt tell me everything i want. How do i trust any of them? You dont.
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The good news seems to be that I shouldn’t have any trouble getting a script for low dose tadalafil and with insurance it’s a lot cheaper than through telehealth.
Old man yells at cloud: Why are all the NP’s and PA-C’s you have to see before you get to see the urologist/colorectal specialists young women? These are jobs for old ugly people.
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Kimera and umbrella both have it. Stones actually ordered some from kimera. My biggest worry is some people just past clomid for enclo and the side effects of that are more harmful than helpful for guys with secondary hypo. Plus side is its not a permanent choice so coming off will stop the negative sides if i read correctly.
Kimera and umbrella both have it. Stones actually ordered some from kimera. My biggest worry is some people just past clomid for enclo and the side effects of that are more harmful than helpful for guys with secondary hypo. Plus side is it’s not a permanent choice so coming off will stop the negative sides if i read correctly.
It’s funny; I finally got done with some tests and other nonsense and my urologist gave me the prescription for enclomiphene. I was pretty happy until I saw that they actually wrote it for Clomid and at a different dose than I asked for.
I sent them a polite message telling them they could fuck right off and that I would source it elsewhere.
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Update for those interested. My quest for proper enclomiphene testing continues. Most labs I have reached out to have either not responded or politely declined. Yesterday I had a video conference with 2 representatives from Eurofins, one of which was a PhD specializing in chiral chemical analysis. No problem he said. Then they sent me an estimate for analysis of 3 samples- $6,700. LOL. Now I get to politely decline. Jano finally responded through their general info email address saying only that their enclomiphene testing package will give me the data I seek. Of course the response began with "Hey dear" which seems a ubiquitous title better served in the gray market. I'm leaning towards this as the cost is only $205 per sample. I anticipate needing to hound them a bit about their method of analysis. I have Kimera, Swiss chems, and another on the way from a reputable 503 compounding pharmacy based in Tx. Thought it'd be fun to add this 3rd sample to see if there is a difference. They emphasize testing of the raws and finished product on their fancy website. I'm also considering attending the first day of this years Sexual Medicine Society meeting in October as they are having two "Hormones and Peptides" lectures- this seems to be a significant acknowledgment in the space. But could also be a 3 hour bash session. Update complete!
@Stones67 What I am finding that is interesting is that my urologist prescribed me Clomid when I asked for enclomipheme - I guess you could quibble about that - but the men’s health vendor, which is using yet a different compounding pharmacy (everyone gets a cut) lists enclomipheme and Clomid as two separate products on their web site. So clearly, someone in the industry recognizes that they are two separate products - even if my doctor - former doctor, sorry - won’t prescribe one of them.
Oh, and their list prices are identical for both.
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@Stones67 What I am finding that is interesting is that my urologist prescribed me Clomid when I asked for enclomipheme - I guess you could quibble about that - but the men’s health vendor, which is using yet a different compounding pharmacy (everyone gets a cut) lists enclomipheme and Clomid as two separate products on their web site. So clearly, someone in the industry recognizes that they are two separate products - even if my doctor - former doctor, sorry - won’t prescribe one of them.
Oh, and their list prices are identical for both.
@ResearchCat
They are different compounds! And I have some good news. I sent "Enclomiphene" samples to Vanguard including the 12.5mg offering from Swiss Chems, 6.25mg from Kimera,, and 6.25 mg from Empower Pharmacy (503). I asked them to list the Zuclomiphene isomer as a contaminant. I recieved the results Thursday evening. Long story short, all three had essentially zero Zuc. I will get around to redacting personal info from the COA's and posting in this thread at some point this weekend- cuz I know you dudes like receipts! -
@ResearchCat
They are different compounds! And I have some good news. I sent "Enclomiphene" samples to Vanguard including the 12.5mg offering from Swiss Chems, 6.25mg from Kimera,, and 6.25 mg from Empower Pharmacy (503). I asked them to list the Zuclomiphene isomer as a contaminant. I recieved the results Thursday evening. Long story short, all three had essentially zero Zuc. I will get around to redacting personal info from the COA's and posting in this thread at some point this weekend- cuz I know you dudes like receipts!@Stones67 That is great news! I was looking at the offering from Modern Aminos, but everything I have seen indicating that most sources don’t differentiate whether zuc is included is a problem. I will check out those vendors.
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Looks good! Thanks so much for doing that!
Are you happy with Swiss Chems? Their rep is mixed, but the tests look good and I am willing to give them a shot.
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Looks good! Thanks so much for doing that!
Are you happy with Swiss Chems? Their rep is mixed, but the tests look good and I am willing to give them a shot.
@ResearchCat
Nothing serious to complain about. I used the 12.5mg every other day. Mass is a tad low. They take a few days longer to arrive. Exp dates are well into the future. Website has been refreshed. They'll send emails frequently about their other compounds. They have many niche compounds. Some recent struggles with CC processing- who hasn't? Kimera is a bit faster. They have the 6.25mg capsule if you're into daily dosing. I just cringe at their logo. Empower was easy to deal with- but then you're relying on THE SYSTEM. I had questions as 'a patient' at checkout (by phone) and they immediately connected me with a pharmacist! After getting these results back I can't see how you can go wrong. (Until some smarty pants chimes in and takes issue with the COA methodology- bring it! LOL)
P.S. I know a urologist who takes clomid and is sticking to it! -
Thx. Ordered from Swiss Chems. Will keep you posted. Appreciate everyone positively contributing.
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Thx. Ordered from Swiss Chems. Will keep you posted. Appreciate everyone positively contributing.
@ResearchCat
Good luck! It's a valid approach for optimization. Plus you'll know whether moving on to TRT at some point in the future is really necessary. Remember though, this won't stand up to the use of other 'enhancements' (AAS, ++, whatever you want to call it) even if you add in HCG. Lab results should show up quickly. I humbly suggest 6-8 wks and then adjust as necessary. -
I was looking into this to optimize my T. The Maximus Protocol study has some great pre post labs to look at and is at large scale with 4 different dosing stratagies. I'm sold on it i've seen alot of N=1 testimonies but this study from the Maximus Tribe Clinics has me sold. see in the link below.
If you wanted to go the 503A route you could use Maximus Clinics if you have the $$$ - Dr Gabriel Alizaidy is the lead for clinical innovation and R&D you may recognixe him from social media posts on hormones and peptides.
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I was looking into this to optimize my T. The Maximus Protocol study has some great pre post labs to look at and is at large scale with 4 different dosing stratagies. I'm sold on it i've seen alot of N=1 testimonies but this study from the Maximus Tribe Clinics has me sold. see in the link below.
If you wanted to go the 503A route you could use Maximus Clinics if you have the $$$ - Dr Gabriel Alizaidy is the lead for clinical innovation and R&D you may recognixe him from social media posts on hormones and peptides.
@bfuller
Cool! its a nice 'study' with basic statistical analysis in a sizable and varied population that shows good response to therapy. I missed a methods section which would have described how the various dosages for these men were initially chosen and then altered over time- but its a small thing for most folks on this forum considering going for it on their own. As usual start lower and increase based on labs and symptoms. Great find. -
@bfuller
Cool! its a nice 'study' with basic statistical analysis in a sizable and varied population that shows good response to therapy. I missed a methods section which would have described how the various dosages for these men were initially chosen and then altered over time- but its a small thing for most folks on this forum considering going for it on their own. As usual start lower and increase based on labs and symptoms. Great find. -
I was looking into this to optimize my T. The Maximus Protocol study has some great pre post labs to look at and is at large scale with 4 different dosing stratagies. I'm sold on it i've seen alot of N=1 testimonies but this study from the Maximus Tribe Clinics has me sold. see in the link below.
If you wanted to go the 503A route you could use Maximus Clinics if you have the $$$ - Dr Gabriel Alizaidy is the lead for clinical innovation and R&D you may recognixe him from social media posts on hormones and peptides.
@bfuller Interesting. I didn’t see it specified, but do you know if these were daily or every other day doses?
Yeah, well, I’m just here for the research, man. - The Dude
If I haven’t liked your post, no offense. I have exceeded my daily allowance.
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@bfuller Interesting. I didn’t see it specified, but do you know if these were daily or every other day doses?
@ResearchCat daily dosing
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Perfect, thanks!
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@bfuller Interesting. I didn’t see it specified, but do you know if these were daily or every other day doses?
@ResearchCat Its hidden in their clinics information on Enclomophine advertisement. 1 pill a day at the same time each day right below thier mention of the whitepaper. Also in the study they said at three years no adverse events so there is some good data there to support it isn't affecting kidney or liver biomarkers even ED for 3 years.
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I wish I read this thread before I ordered a large qty from Modified Aminos. Am I understanding correctly that what we don’t want in our Enclomiphene capsules is the presence of Zuclomiphene?
This was the COA they provided which I take is not helpful?
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