Bacteriostatic Water
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@pep_researcher said in Bacteriostatic Water:
Some researchers go much longer with Hospira than 28 day rule.
It's about personal judgement and risk tolerance. But if Peter of Janoshik is to be quoted, the BAC water and 28 day rule is over hyped. He said there's only sterile water available in Europe. BAC is more of north American thing. They use sterile water vial for long long time without any recon issues.
Disclaimer: NOT an advice, just quoting for the context.
That's Hospira covering their butt. I am comfortable using Bac water, especially a high grade reputable one like Hospira, definitely well past 30 days. Fridge it after it has been opened. We've got plenty of research and anecdotal data to show they're good for up to 90 days.
But remember, that's 90 days TOTAL since opened. Doesn't mean a half bottle can sit in your fridge for 89 days, you use it to recon, then its magically good for another 30 days while you research with whatever peptide you recon with.
I would NOT go past 90 days, the research shows the bac water sterility breaks down fast after that. So not worth it just to save whatever small amount. I am not worried about potency loss, and neither should you. I am worried about bacterial growth.
@Neil-McCauley said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@pep_researcher said in Bacteriostatic Water:
Some researchers go much longer with Hospira than 28 day rule.
It's about personal judgement and risk tolerance. But if Peter of Janoshik is to be quoted, the BAC water and 28 day rule is over hyped. He said there's only sterile water available in Europe. BAC is more of north American thing. They use sterile water vial for long long time without any recon issues.
Disclaimer: NOT an advice, just quoting for the context.
That's Hospira covering their butt. I am comfortable using Bac water, especially a high grade reputable one like Hospira, definitely well past 30 days. Fridge it after it has been opened. We've got plenty of research and anecdotal data to show they're good for up to 90 days.
But remember, that's 90 days TOTAL since opened. Doesn't mean a half bottle can sit in your fridge for 89 days, you use it to recon, then its magically good for another 30 days while you research with whatever peptide you recon with.
I would NOT go past 90 days, the research shows the bac water sterility breaks down fast after that. So not worth it just to save whatever small amount. I am not worried about potency loss, and neither should you. I am worried about bacterial growth.
Thanks, I'm aware. I was pointing out that still there are biohackers who go way beyond 90 days and live.
TBH all these day rules and all seem made up based on personal judgement.
In fact someone posted an actual test of BAC water benzyl alcohol efficacy across 30, 60, 90, and 120 days on Reddit--room temp and refrigerated both. Even at 120 days there was only a slight drop in BA amount.
If I find the post, will link it here.
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@pep_researcher Randy posted Hospira test results somewhere here. At 120 days it feel off the cliff.
https://community.peptidecritic.com/post/4935 -
Also, where can I find Hospira bac water that's less than 30ml? Can't find it anywhere.
I found some in the UK, Union Biolabs. I’ve ordered some, I hope they’re not dodgy! I will update you when my vials arrive.
https://unionbiolabs.com/product/pfizer-hospira-bacteriostatic-water/I also found this supplier, but their out of stock
https://bacwaterdirect.co.uk/shop/Also, there’s this company in Canada, who’s wiling to ship to uk. Although, their out of stock too
https://www.midwiferysupplies.ca/products/bacteriostatic-water-for-injection?srsltid=AfmBOoqKP7Bzdb0zrwtRji4TO0N1Ha2tf2G_ewtivUAJ8cUtqij4mUGnI hear OPLabs BAC water is ok, a good ph.
I’ve used PhD Products BAC Water, ordered from Amazon, I’ve not had any issues but it is pricier than others. -
@pep_researcher Randy posted Hospira test results somewhere here. At 120 days it feel off the cliff.
https://community.peptidecritic.com/post/4935@MyB said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@pep_researcher Randy posted Hospira test results somewhere here. At 120 days it feel off the cliff.
https://community.peptidecritic.com/post/4935No, after 90 days it falls off a cliff
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@neil-mccauley yes, we said the same thing just different ways. 90 days it starts to fall, 120 days it has fallen.
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@neil-mccauley yes, we said the same thing just different ways. 90 days it starts to fall, 120 days it has fallen.
@MyB said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@neil-mccauley yes, we said the same thing just different ways. 90 days it starts to fall, 120 days it has fallen.
Sure, but the way you wrote it comes across like it's ok to use up to 120 days. Me personally, after the 90 days that water is done, I'm not taking any chances with my rat. Besides, it's bac water, fairly affordable and something you're injecting a large quantity of into your rat. If there's one place to NOT cut corners or take any unnecessary risks with, its your bac water for sure.
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@MyB said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@neil-mccauley yes, we said the same thing just different ways. 90 days it starts to fall, 120 days it has fallen.
Sure, but the way you wrote it comes across like it's ok to use up to 120 days. Me personally, after the 90 days that water is done, I'm not taking any chances with my rat. Besides, it's bac water, fairly affordable and something you're injecting a large quantity of into your rat. If there's one place to NOT cut corners or take any unnecessary risks with, its your bac water for sure.
@Neil-McCauley
I had JUST WROTE a reply to this test on the original thread. Here is the info I was able to find:.8+BA% after 120 days?!?!?
According to AI:
Benzyl Alcohol stops being reliably antimicrobial once you drop below .5% and you don't start to see "real world growth" until .3%.I'd be interested to see this study carried out until there is evidence of actual growth in each bottle.
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@MyB said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@pep_researcher Randy posted Hospira test results somewhere here. At 120 days it feel off the cliff.
https://community.peptidecritic.com/post/4935No, after 90 days it falls off a cliff
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@Neil-McCauley said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@MyB said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@pep_researcher Randy posted Hospira test results somewhere here. At 120 days it feel off the cliff.
https://community.peptidecritic.com/post/4935No, after 90 days it falls off a cliff
(
Yeah, then someone from this community must have posted this graph on Reddit. As that was the exact graph. LOL
The cliff though FEELS like a cliff because the graph is plotted on a high resolution Y axis.
The peptide testing labs have acceptable range of benzyl alcohol 0.72-1.08% to pass or fail a BAC.
Even at 120 days Hospira BAC holds 0.84% BA which is well within the acceptable range. Also note that it did not start at 0.9% on day 0, and degradation if any was very slow and tiny.
That is the point I'm trying to emphasize that 90 days is not a magic number. Even at 120 days, the benzyl alcohol content holds good per testing lab standards.
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@Neil-McCauley
I had JUST WROTE a reply to this test on the original thread. Here is the info I was able to find:.8+BA% after 120 days?!?!?
According to AI:
Benzyl Alcohol stops being reliably antimicrobial once you drop below .5% and you don't start to see "real world growth" until .3%.I'd be interested to see this study carried out until there is evidence of actual growth in each bottle.
@Stan-Douglas Correct! That would be the real proof of number of days of true validity.
Otherwise social media has number of days all over the place, some throw away at 28, some at 30, some at 60, some 90. Some say they use it till the last drop and haven't seen any recon problems or problems in their rats.
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@Neil-McCauley said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@MyB said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@pep_researcher Randy posted Hospira test results somewhere here. At 120 days it feel off the cliff.
https://community.peptidecritic.com/post/4935No, after 90 days it falls off a cliff
(
Yeah, then someone from this community must have posted this graph on Reddit. As that was the exact graph. LOL
The cliff though FEELS like a cliff because the graph is plotted on a high resolution Y axis.
The peptide testing labs have acceptable range of benzyl alcohol 0.72-1.08% to pass or fail a BAC.
Even at 120 days Hospira BAC holds 0.84% BA which is well within the acceptable range. Also note that it did not start at 0.9% on day 0, and degradation if any was very slow and tiny.
That is the point I'm trying to emphasize that 90 days is not a magic number. Even at 120 days, the benzyl alcohol content holds good per testing lab standards.
@pep_researcher said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@Neil-McCauley said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@MyB said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@pep_researcher Randy posted Hospira test results somewhere here. At 120 days it feel off the cliff.
https://community.peptidecritic.com/post/4935No, after 90 days it falls off a cliff
(
Yeah, then someone from this community must have posted this graph on Reddit. As that was the exact graph. LOL
The cliff though FEELS like a cliff because the graph is plotted on a high resolution Y axis.
The peptide testing labs have acceptable range of benzyl alcohol 0.72-1.08% to pass or fail a BAC.
Even at 120 days Hospira BAC holds 0.84% BA which is well within the acceptable range. Also note that it did not start at 0.9% on day 0, and degradation if any was very slow and tiny.
That is the point I'm trying to emphasize that 90 days is not a magic number. Even at 120 days, the benzyl alcohol content holds good per testing lab standards.
Thanks for the response. That's definitely reassuring. Bac water is something I've always been extra careful/paranoid about with my rat. Those throwing it away at 30/60 days are definitely wasting it. I think in a pinch you could extend it out to 120 days. I've never needed to, and 90 is me being extra cautious while simultaneously not being overly wasteful and paranoid, just a common sense middle ground.
I'm not running a multi-million dollar laboratory over here, but I'm certainly not running some 3rd world cheap lab, I do have resources so the idea of stretching out something as cheap as bac water down to the last drop always seemed like an unnecessary risk.
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@pep_researcher said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@Neil-McCauley said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@MyB said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@pep_researcher Randy posted Hospira test results somewhere here. At 120 days it feel off the cliff.
https://community.peptidecritic.com/post/4935No, after 90 days it falls off a cliff
(
Yeah, then someone from this community must have posted this graph on Reddit. As that was the exact graph. LOL
The cliff though FEELS like a cliff because the graph is plotted on a high resolution Y axis.
The peptide testing labs have acceptable range of benzyl alcohol 0.72-1.08% to pass or fail a BAC.
Even at 120 days Hospira BAC holds 0.84% BA which is well within the acceptable range. Also note that it did not start at 0.9% on day 0, and degradation if any was very slow and tiny.
That is the point I'm trying to emphasize that 90 days is not a magic number. Even at 120 days, the benzyl alcohol content holds good per testing lab standards.
Thanks for the response. That's definitely reassuring. Bac water is something I've always been extra careful/paranoid about with my rat. Those throwing it away at 30/60 days are definitely wasting it. I think in a pinch you could extend it out to 120 days. I've never needed to, and 90 is me being extra cautious while simultaneously not being overly wasteful and paranoid, just a common sense middle ground.
I'm not running a multi-million dollar laboratory over here, but I'm certainly not running some 3rd world cheap lab, I do have resources so the idea of stretching out something as cheap as bac water down to the last drop always seemed like an unnecessary risk.
@Neil-McCauley Agreed. The only pinch researchers feel is when there is a shortage or regulators hounding RUO space throttling all supplies.
That's when one gets thinking what am I going to with all these lyophilized vials without BAC water to recon? Then instead of buying random BAC from Amazon, it feels alright to stretch Hospira BAC vial to make supplies last long.
It comes down to availability vs risk assessment more than cost.
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@pep_researcher said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@Neil-McCauley said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@MyB said in Bacteriostatic Water:
@pep_researcher Randy posted Hospira test results somewhere here. At 120 days it feel off the cliff.
https://community.peptidecritic.com/post/4935No, after 90 days it falls off a cliff
(
Yeah, then someone from this community must have posted this graph on Reddit. As that was the exact graph. LOL
The cliff though FEELS like a cliff because the graph is plotted on a high resolution Y axis.
The peptide testing labs have acceptable range of benzyl alcohol 0.72-1.08% to pass or fail a BAC.
Even at 120 days Hospira BAC holds 0.84% BA which is well within the acceptable range. Also note that it did not start at 0.9% on day 0, and degradation if any was very slow and tiny.
That is the point I'm trying to emphasize that 90 days is not a magic number. Even at 120 days, the benzyl alcohol content holds good per testing lab standards.
Thanks for the response. That's definitely reassuring. Bac water is something I've always been extra careful/paranoid about with my rat. Those throwing it away at 30/60 days are definitely wasting it. I think in a pinch you could extend it out to 120 days. I've never needed to, and 90 is me being extra cautious while simultaneously not being overly wasteful and paranoid, just a common sense middle ground.
I'm not running a multi-million dollar laboratory over here, but I'm certainly not running some 3rd world cheap lab, I do have resources so the idea of stretching out something as cheap as bac water down to the last drop always seemed like an unnecessary risk.
@Neil-McCauley Nevertheless, I personally have kept enough stock of Hospira, but since I don't stack a lot of peps at the same time, my usage is usually very tiny, so I do tend to stretch an open vial much longer.
That was also the reason I went down the rabbit hole of finding the truth behind all these numbers, 30, 60, 90, 120 days etc, to assess the risk behind my own practices. Hehe
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@marco1 Mounjaro or Zepbound single dose pens or vials have no preservatives. That's why they are strongly advised to not split like so many YouTube videos demo to save cost or custom dosing. People sometimes do it anyway and add Hospira BAC water to extracted fat juice.
The multidose KwikPens or multidose vials (in the future) would have preservative like BAC water.
I was referring to the Multidose Kwikpens. That's what i've been using for the past 2 years. (I split my time in EU/US so I got the EU kwikpen)
I reconstitute my animals peps and store them into a pen. The pen travels with me a lot and i wanted to make them more temperature resistant by looking at how eli lilly does that. They seem to add PH buffers (although retatrutide likes to be lower PH than tirzepetide) and use Metacresol as preservative.
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@wisgal64
Unfortunately, SOLD OUT! I'm cryin'.
https://peptidetest.com/products/pfizer-hospira-bacteriostatic-water-30ml-vial?_pos=19&_sid=a87777b51&_ss=r -
Sorry @wisgal64 Should I not have posted the link?
Simple Peptides is the $30, 30ml vial. Yikes. -
I'm not sure how many are aware of this, so I'll share some info I learned about the Gold Standard Bac.
To check it's legitimacy, each and every bottle has a QR code on the metal ring.
So if you are contemplating purchasing or have purchased from any site that is marketing it, you know what to look for when you receive the order.
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Out of curiosity, has anyone considered making your own Bac water? I've seen a few posts on it out on the web of people mixing their own.
@THammil said in Bacteriostatic Water:
Out of curiosity, has anyone considered making your own Bac water? I've seen a few posts on it out on the web of people mixing their own.
Yup I've thought and gone in the rabbit hole too:
- Get sterile water for injection, Hospira or any pharma grade brand, usually no shortage drama for these.
- Get USP grade pure benzyl alcohol, available on medical supply sites easily and even on Amazon.
- For each 10ml of sterile water inject 10 units (0.1ml) of benzyl alcohol. That gives you 0.99% BA BAC (0.1 / 10.1 × 100)
In fact according to the LLM apps, sterile water for irrigation is as good as SWF injections as their prep procedure is the same. Irrigation one is easily available on Amazon or other sites but comes in sealed bottles not vials.
There's too much hype of Hospira BAC. The entire European pep community survives on sterile water.
Having said that, I usually keep enough of H BAC stock. This deep dive was for backup plans.
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