@vpeps said:

@PeptidePete said:

Iron/TBIC/Ferritin finally all within optimum range

What do you consider as optimal values for these?

It's a great question! I do agree with @diegoc too much is probably not good.

HOWEVER, too low is most certainly a BIG problem, "therapeutic" phlebotomy caused me years of lack of stamina and suboptimal energy, and FLGR this year further drained my ferritin reserves as it let my muscle (re)growth run unchecked (a good thing).

So now I'm on to the hematocrit OMG IT WILL KILL YOU!! scam and gloriously let it run free as well. Pull the string if you want to really get pissed off.

Tangent mini-rant- if you are dealing with secondary erythrocytosis driven by exogenous testosterone, hematocrit is MEANINGLESS. Just like Estradiol level is MEANINGLESS. (pull the string) IGNORE. It's GOOD not bad.

Back to the question, on this I am quite comfortable to be in the Labcorp reference intervals. See attached.

The more you dig the more you discover so many so-called experts have no fucking clue what they are talking about. Recommendations based solely upon "Expert opinion" is utter BS. Be your own advocate and trust NO ONE unless claims are thoroughly vetted.

Update- just finished the course last week, crazy strong urine stream (I'm 65 yr old), unexpected effect but awesome...lol May be a synergistic combination with Klotho, so I'd be super curious to hear other data points here.

This material gives most people a bump and itch and redness for a few hours or less. I suggest doing oral antihistamine until you acclimate.

QSC/Tracy (love them) has it for .70/mg

In regards to reconstitution I worked up to tolerating 1ml BAC to 50-60mg vial, but I also tried 2ml split between two pins. Do what works for you.

In regards to doses under 40mg/day, there is no evidence for efficacy that I have seen, if someone has it, please post.

I am a bit surprised, but heartened, to read the enthusiasm and success reports! Do you own deep research and do what is best for you, for sure.

Update:

New labs look great Cystatin C 1.11->1.04, Iron/TBIC/Ferritin finally all within optimum range. Stamina ever increasing (fixed ferritin).

Completed SS-31 2 month 50mg daily run, surprising effect on urine flow increase. Wonder if synergistic in combo with the Klotho? Could be/Should be when you think it. The cost of SS-31, first off I loaded up from multiple vendors who were blowing out stocks Dec-Feb in fear, second, QSC offers 50mg at .70/mg. Understand screaming deals when you see them, then, act on them. In regards to expense, what I look at is value, what else is proven to do what elamipretide does? Nothing. I plan to run another two month course in a couple months from now, so 2 on, then 3 off, rinse repeat.

BTW- the proven minimum efficacious dose is what it is, I've seen zero evidence anything less than 40mg daily is effective, indeed the opposite. The molecule doesn't care if anyone likes that or not.

Ran an experiment stopping variable-resistance training for two months to observe effect on Skeletal Muscle Mass, shock, only dropped 1lb. There is another benefit I attribute to FLGR. Maintain the gain if you go on vacation for a couple months

@The-Spatalian said:

Been on FLGR for 15 weeks. Started at 2.5mg. After zero change. I upped to 5 the last 4 weeks. Have put on a few pounds of muscle. And FAT. But keep in mind. According to the manufacturer. You have to up your calories 50-75% above BMR. REALLY hard to do. I maintain my 170-200
Good on all of those who claim huge increases in muscle mass after a couple of months. But...until I see MRI scans proving that. Or really know what's in the vials? I'll not continue FLGR-242

Interesting data point, thanks for posting!

@Mr-Smurf said:

Stuffs pretty rad

WOW! Vascularity and definition, exactly what I experienced. Please keep us updated?

@MacLeeezy said:

4 week update- I’ve been noticeably stronger in the gym lately and have actually set a few PR’s. Still way more vascular than normal. I’d been averaging 8-10lbs weight loss a month. Since starting FLGR it has slowed to maybe 1-2lbs but my smart scale shows fat decreasing and muscle increasing. Disclaimer: I started enclomaphine around the same time so there’s really no telling which one is doing the heavy lifting but my test went from 677 to 900 on 6.25mg of Enclo daily. Taking 2 vials of slim assist every Sunday. It’s either working, the increased testosterone is working, or is a top tier placebo. Either way I’m happy thus far

Wow! And....exactly what I would expect

Please update after more weeks. Based on my experience you have 3-4 great months ahead of you.

Mike Farber answers questions. A must-watch for avid researchers: https://streamyard.com/watch/eGeUWk6eREYS

About 6 weeks ago I restarted my SS-31 research at 60mg per day, every day. Following up on my previously posted multi-month course of 40mg per day. I feel great, no negatives. Some subjective improvements. Will conclude research at 8 weeks daily use (two weeks from now). I am very well optimized and use this to ameliorate any possible negs from compounds such as O-304 and/or occasional AAS oral/oil.

Mitochondrial related bloodwork is pristine, as 65 years old, so N=1 is thrilled.

There is zero evidence that microdosing gives any results. The one human trial at 4mg showed zero efficacy. Zero. Only 40mg daily showed results.

Go big or don't bother is my opinion of this material.

Know what you are doing and why you are doing it.

There is very thought-provoking discussion "out there" in regards to the damage leaky membranes (cardiolipin) cause. ROS, free-radicals, etc. Very nasty. What are the downstream affects of that, not fcking good that's what.

SS-31 will be something I run multiple times per year. The benefits are NOT one-and-done. Pull on that string. Gotta keep working on that particular pathway.

Research is your friend.

@SwollStreetBets said:

Has anyone researched oral vs subq 5A1MQ in terms of dose and overall efficacy?

As a matter of fact...

I began research of QSC 50mg tabs, $900/1000 tabs (now sold out USA warehouse, unknown if will restock), three weeks ago. 50mg per day, every day. Was previously subq pinning NEXAPH 50mg vial per day everyday.

Surprisingly, I find the QSC tabs to be subjectively more noticeable and presumably very effective. Cost per mg is monumentally different and thank God it's one less pin to do.

My preliminary research led me to feel confident oral is just as bioavailable if not more so as pinned. Thrilled with results.

Running it with Kimera new Na-Salt O-304, N=1 says synergistic and additive effects. Please do your own research, however me likee

@diegoc said:

@PeptidePete well buddy i really gone deep down the rabbit hole on Ferritin.

You know by doing multiple back to back blood donations my ferretin went down to 17.

Ive been on 20 for around 4-5 months, thats doing Iron bisglycinate, heme iron, clams, beef liver.

Just some weekend homework ‍️

Good stuff brother, thank you very much for the Post. I know of PD Mangan very well . He's very prolific on X

I'm also aware of the case that some people have put forward for the toxicity if you will of excess iron for a man. Is absolutely something to be aware of, it was an excellent point to be surfaced.

With that said since going to work on raising my levels my endurance and oxygenation have massively increased. My pulse ox spo2 was running 89 to 91 at rest, now it is 98 to 99. There's a particular Hill that I power walk up every other day and combined with sprints. Previous to my ferritin raising therapy I was a dog trying to get up that hill in spite of all the good stuff that I'm using. Subsequent to the ferritin increase and the iron foods I am absolutely destroying it , so the proof's in the pudding for me.

Let's see how my labs come back next week and see what the levels are it's going to be a very curious experiment for both of us to consider. I'm shooting for 100 to 200 so I'm super curious to see where I'm at now

Quick follow-up on the new Kimera Chems Na Salt-form O-304. It's potent, I'm quite fine on 50-100mg of it vs 400-600mg of the free-acid versions being sold by EVERYONE else. Homework is your friend, once again.

The 5-Amino-1MQ 50mg tabs from QSC are great, one less ting I have to pin and far more cost effective (cost per mg). No negs that I can discern.

Again do your homework. For those who enjoy him, Nick Norwitz has some thought-provoking papers on both. Check his Substack.

I'd suggest both of these are oriented towards those looking to fine-tune what is already a well optimized regimen and body.

My research with SS-31 at 60mg per day, every day, remains ongoing.

Just went for monthly labs blood draw today, I'll update thread when I have them back. Primarily interested to see if I have fixed my ferritin levels, and, effects if any from every 9 day dosing of Klotho on any blood markers (Serum Phosphorus/eGFR/Cystatin C). I feel phenomenal.

Vial pucks, lyophilized peptides- IT'S COSMETIC ONLY. Please for the love of all that is good, the visual appearance of the puck is of ZERO significance. The SIZE of the puck DOES NOT MATTER. Let it go. Live free and without worry! Same goes for the vial not having a vacuum, it does not matter.

Shaking peptides- IT DOES NOT DAMAGE THEM AT ALL PERIOD. There is no question or discussion needed. Shake the ever loving shit out of your reconstituted vials! Aim your reconstitution BAC water stream with firehose force on the puck! Watch the Peter Magic/ Janoshik videos. Dear God let's put this ancient old wives tales to rest once and for all. (including GH)

The one and only exception I am aware of: Cell Factors. Truly fragile and never use BAC, only sterile water.

I enjoy seeing the initial and prelim reports of FLGR, remember as I have repeatedly noted, it takes 3, 4, 5 good high-dose months for the magic to bloom. Except for the vascularity magic...lol which as noted comes on fast. Those who are worried by that, do your homework on exactly what vascularity is and what causes it. If you desire to not have a world class circulatory system, then be worried and stop FLGR immediately. How the hell else is your body going to transport nutrients and oxygen to support the newfound growth signal? Think this through, body is smart not stupid.

PS- I need to take a photo or two after I get out of the sauna, my arms, legs, abdomen appear built from a MASSIVE LATTICEWORK of blood vessels. Just nuts. I assure the reader that never in my 65 year life have I ever looked like this. Like a different species of human is no exaggeration. I've never appreciated just how metabolically fucked up 95% of people now are. I am not a body-builder, I have never been in a gym, to be clear. Currently steady at 14-15% body fat, I am never hungry. No veg, sugars, fruit, grains. Only fatty ruminant meats, butter, eggs, selected seafoods, fermented veg, and limited dairy. Going on four years now.

@ResearchCat said:

@vpep Yep, I am sure that most people buying SlimAssist were buying it as an arbitrage on the price of FLGR and don’t give a hoot about the vitamin B. And the BLL people are probably smart enough to know that.

Exactly. The ONLY reason to buy it.

BLL has some interesting products in the pipeline, Slim Assist did not sell at the volumes they expected, it is expensive to produce, and they have massive upcoming expense for the TB4/GH Albumin-bound products. Ergo- you blow out the dogs to make room for the new stuff.

As a business owner, I understand this in crystal clear fashion.

Their loss was my gain to buy at $16 or whatever per vial to get the FLGR. I could care less about b-vits as water soluble and you just urinate excess out.

@mole said:

PeptidePete AHHHH excellent information. Doesn't matter what it is, but HAVE keep learning - all day every day. I'm 63 but as much as I've learned about my body and peptides over the last 6 month, I'm still a young pup as far as knowledge. So much to learn - I think even the most learned people here (you being one) always still have much to learn. What a fun challenge it is to take on - learning.

Sincerely thanks much - long and happy life to you - and all!
Mole (yeah, figure out what THAT nickname relates to)

@ResearchCat said:

@peptidepete Apologies for any confusion: I was not meaning to insinuate that tendon damage was due to use of FLGR, but more generally when making big gains fast, particularly for older people who haven’t been working out regularly.

I suppose this is the same as suggesting that drivers should be careful so they don’t get in an accident, but some people still need to hear it.

Thanks for your advice!

Your posts are awesome, thank you for being a part of the conversation! Certainly no "apologies" are due The dialog is healthy

Some posts in various places have tried to associate FLGR with ALL KINDS of maladies with zero evidence, I'm easily triggered...lol in the same manner as "BPC157 causes CANCER!" And "shaking the vials instantly destroy the peptide"...haha

Various-

Cell Factors is the ONLY BLL agent REQUIRING sterile water (not BAC) reconstitution.

Vacuum on any peptide vial is meaningless. It just is. Don't worry about.

Slim Assist is pinkish powder due to the B vitamin in it. You're going to be peeing pink as well,

Poster above reminded me of months 3-6 on FLGR. My various muscles/skin covering felt tight. Squatting in the shower when squeegeeing it, was like my skin was an inflated balloon. Less of a sensation now after 8 months but still "skin-tight" skin. I like the sensation.

Also reminded again, as I noted previously, after a few months on FLGR, man I CRAVED a strenuous resistance workout. Felt like doing them every day (not good of course)! The brakes were off and the body said LFG!

From day one, I have been doing 5mg TB4 (full-chain TB-500) every 2-3 days, said (Mike Farber) to be very synergistic with FLGR, and just otherwise awesome stuff.

No disrespect intended at all to my other posting friend, however there is no evidence and no reports of "tendon damage" from FLGR users. A wholly theoretical construct which is just not born out in reality. Like so many things said in the peptide influencer world

Simply for the sake of convenience I have settled on maintenance protocol of 3 vials Slim Assist once per week. .3ml BAC per vial, pull all three into a 1ml syringe, joyfully pin it. Have researched up to 15mg per week, I detected no obvious benefits over above 5mg per week. 1mg per day perhaps helped at the margins. As 65 year old man, I have no reason to "cycle" off the FLGR and it does not attenuate any receptors, that is not how it works.

I'm researching the Klotho at one vial per 9 days now. I like it and feel great. For super safety I am testing Serum Phosphorus and Vit D levels in two weeks, also as noted super curious to see effect on Cystatin C and eGFR.

@mole said:

@PeptidePete P1 here - love ALL good info here - Pete, sure value what you say, have a question I couldn't find answered. Can't stomach Roe at all. No way. Uhuh can't do it. Or, yet - never say never. Why isn't Whey protein spoken about here? If what I've read/found out/heard Toro Poopoo?

Almost forgot - 6' and 195lbs. AND have vascularity again - been over 30 years!!!

Hey Mr. Mole! Wow, so awesome, thank you for your kind comments. Your journey sounds great!

I do not, nor would I ever use whey protein. Research bioavailability they are ALL grossly sub-optimal, ignore marketing BS!

If you want a drinkable, liquid, protein to use on low protein/fasting days I can suggest only ONE: Jaquish Biomedical Fortagen. Tastes terrible, proven to get the job done. John Jaquish is a GOAT, I totally respect him.

For solid protein- beef, goat, sheep are #1 best options as rich with healthy fats. Any animal NOT monogastic. Also of course soy-free/corn-free fed chick eggs. Salmon/cod/haddock are best fish. Quality farmed is OK!

To amplify your waist size comment- after I fixed everything, lost the fats, I wound up at 152lbs and wearing 31" waist pants. I'm now averaging 174lbs (FLGR baby!) AND...wearing the same 31" pants! THAT is body recomposition at it's finest and exactly what I sought.

Side note- I have now researched ATX-304/O-304 several times, for weeks at a time, at doses up to 600mg/day. I like it, a lot. But the full 600mg give me some weird feelings in chest and pulse when going to bed so backed it down a bit. Been using Umbrella Labs 100mg caps but have the brand new Kimera Chems Na/Salt version coming. Na is the actual version used in the human trials and the free-acid version everyone other than Kimera sells is not nearly as readily absorbed. Freebie comment that no one asked for...lol

@MacLeeezy said:

I’ve been lurking this thread long enough and the FOMO finally got to me. Just picked up 50 vials because the sale was too good. Hope the FLGR works as good for me too…

Please update the thread with your personal experience after a month or two on it?

For me it took 6-8 weeks to really shine when combined with variable-resistance training every few days. Built over 6 months.

@mmp said:

How is your local underskin reaction from FLGR242? Any soreness redness?

There can be depending on FLGR or Slim Assist and site of injection.

Whatever you do do not inject into muscle, ALWAYS subQ, unless you want days of a big painful knot.

I am led to believe a person get used to the albumin binder over time and ISR go away. It definitely did for me. SlimAssist although gave it to me again. Must be slight variations in batches.

Sore, small lump, redness, goes away after a few days.

Ordered $50k+ in past 12 months from BLL. No issues.

Let's be CRYSTAL clear on pucks- it has ZERO meaning if the puck is broken, ugly, small, large, whatever. It just does not affect the quality AT ALL. Period. End of story.